[Digestion] Negative Biogas Press

Mon Feb 14 07:03:51 CST 2011

Hey Randy,

Please get me that study report once it comes out.

Thanks

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:22 AM, Randy Mott <randymott at ceeres.eu> wrote:

> We like to point out the studies that show much higher plant uptake of
> digestate – with free nitrogen – than the original manure material. New
> Danish study should be out soon on total lack of any problem materials
> (disease, pathogens) in the digestate.
>
>
>
> Randy Mott
>
> CEERES
>
>
>
> *From:* digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:
> digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Duncan Martin
> *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2011 12:11 PM
>
> *To:* For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> *Subject:* Re: [Digestion] Negative Biogas Press
>
>
>
> Hi Alex
>
>
>
> There's a lot to respond to here - but I suspect a lot of it is nonsense.
>
>
>
> It's true that biogas production removes carbon that could enrich the soil.
> However, many (most?) AD feedstocks are unsuitable for direct applcn to the
> soil (for a range of reasons), whereas the digestate is beneficial. So
> without AD, there could be no enrichment of the soil. With AD, there is
> substantial enrichment, even if less than some theoretical (but
> unattainable) maximum.
>
>
>
> In the case of a feedstock that can be applied directly, of course, that
> should be considered. Animals have been 'manuring' the soil since the dawn
> of time, after all.......
>
>
>
> *Clostridium spp* would not be unusual in AD. I have no idea whether the
> botulinum toxin is produced in AD. However, I would be surprised if it is
> stable once applied to the soil - and a 'rest' period should always be
> allowed after spreading digestate. How long depends on the soil and the crop
> - longer for salads than for root vegetables or cereals for example.
>
>
>
> So any problems of sick cattle might well be caused by poor management:
> i.e. allowing grazing too soon after application. There is nothing unusual
> about applying digestate to fodder fields: it has been done for almost 100
> years and I have never heard of this problem before.
>
>
>
> I don't understand German, so I can't comment on the video clip - but I
> wonder if this issue mainly relates to grass-fed AD. This is quite common in
> some German-speaking countries, encouraged by generous prices for
> electricity from biogas. I wonder if farmers under financial pressure have
> been tempted to cut corners?
>
>
>
> Duncan Martin PhD
>
> Cloughjordan Ecovillage
>
> Ireland
>
> www.thevillage.ie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 13 February 2011 23:37, Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have received this from a few people now...it is clearly circulating
> widely.  I have plenty of comments regarding the soil aspects, and certainly
> some of the AD sludge contents from industrial or black water plants is a
> bit beyond my expertise, but I would certainly appreciate some comments from
> this group, especially any Germans that can comment on the YouTube part.
> This guy clearly is now against biogas, and it would make sense to have some
> good responses to this type of thing.
>
> Best
>
> Dear Kamal,
> Dear All,
>
> Besides the clear and proven advantages of biogas there are at least two
> extremely severe problems:
>
> Organic matter that is converted into gas is no longer availabel to produce
> humus, so there are reports from farmers that the soil is getting less and
> less producticve. Rich soil may be far more important that the relatively
> litte amount of gas. Composting expecially with earthworms and additon of
> some charcoal dust (can easily be made from straw, rice husks instead of the
> terrible burning) ideally plus stone dust can be far more beneficial with
> rising productivity for food and more biomass and is simple, too. At TUHH we
> are now working intensely of also composting urine and mixed excreta
> stabilised by lactofermenters together with woody wastes to make more soil
> as I want to work with ecolocical agriculture and not do industrial
> agriculture with addion of fast fertiliser. Biogas can be a threat for long
> term food security and you will have to pay for the gas with more and more
> fertiliser demand, less water reproduction, flooding through compacting
> soils.
>
> In Germany (see   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cNyyU3zcXY sorry in
> German) (and probably elsewhere)  there are dramatic problems with the
> masses of heavily subsidised biogas plants for food to energy producion
> where *Clostridium botulinum *is growing rapidly under anaerobic
> conditions producing the highly toxic substance, there are hundreds of farms
> where all milk cows are dying and the farmers are ruined, even they became
> ill sometimes. The reason are fodder fields that are fertilised with the
> sludge from the biogas plants. The very dangerouos botulinum toxin (misused
> by people who hate aging by paralysing nerves in the face thus turning it
> into a mask, then called botox) is only showing effect after many month so
> the effect is often not related to the cause.
>
> I used to be very positive towards biogas and have planned and built them,
> I will not do this anymore except for some industrial wastewaters. Maybe
> also for sanitation in areas where the soils are super humus rich already
> and botulism can be avoided safely.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ralf
>
> For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
>
> --
> Alexander Eaton
> Sistema Biobolsa
> IRRI-Mexico
> RedBioLAC
>
> Mex cel: (55) 11522786
> US cel: 970 275 4505
>
> alex at irrimexico.org
> alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
>
> sistemabiobolsa.com
> www.irrimexico.org
> www.redbiolac.org
>
>
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> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
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> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>

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