[Digestion] Negative Biogas Press

Tue Feb 15 08:42:08 CST 2011

I would also be intersted in that Report.
Thank you
Dominic Lapointe Ph.D.

-----Message d'origine-----
De : digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] De la part de Andrew
James Ward
Envoyé : 15 février 2011 01:28
À : For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Objet : Re: [Digestion] Negative Biogas Press

Hello Randy could i also please get a copy of that report once it is out
                                  cheers from andrew
-- 
> > Andrew Ward

> > School of Chemical Engineering
> > The University of Adelaide, Australia 5005
> > Room NM10 Engineering north
> > laboratory NG15(Biochemical and Fermentation Lab)

> > Phone: +61 8 83133150
> > Fax:   +61 8 8303 4373
> > Mobile: 0410 389 528
> >
> > E-mail: andrew.ward at adelaide.edu.au

Quoting Vianney Tumwesige <trustvianney at gmail.com>:

> Hey Randy,
>
> Please get me that study report once it comes out.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:22 AM, Randy Mott <randymott at ceeres.eu> wrote:
>
> > We like to point out the studies that show much higher plant uptake of
> > digestate – with free nitrogen – than the original manure material. New
> > Danish study should be out soon on total lack of any problem materials
> > (disease, pathogens) in the digestate.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy Mott
> >
> > CEERES
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:
> > digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Duncan Martin
> > *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2011 12:11 PM
> >
> > *To:* For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> > *Subject:* Re: [Digestion] Negative Biogas Press
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Alex
> >
> >
> >
> > There's a lot to respond to here - but I suspect a lot of it is
nonsense.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's true that biogas production removes carbon that could enrich the
soil.
> > However, many (most?) AD feedstocks are unsuitable for direct applcn to
the
> > soil (for a range of reasons), whereas the digestate is beneficial. So
> > without AD, there could be no enrichment of the soil. With AD, there is
> > substantial enrichment, even if less than some theoretical (but
> > unattainable) maximum.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the case of a feedstock that can be applied directly, of course, that
> > should be considered. Animals have been 'manuring' the soil since the
dawn
> > of time, after all.......
> >
> >
> >
> > *Clostridium spp* would not be unusual in AD. I have no idea whether the
> > botulinum toxin is produced in AD. However, I would be surprised if it
is
> > stable once applied to the soil - and a 'rest' period should always be
> > allowed after spreading digestate. How long depends on the soil and the
> crop
> > - longer for salads than for root vegetables or cereals for example.
> >
> >
> >
> > So any problems of sick cattle might well be caused by poor management:
> > i.e. allowing grazing too soon after application. There is nothing
unusual
> > about applying digestate to fodder fields: it has been done for almost
100
> > years and I have never heard of this problem before.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't understand German, so I can't comment on the video clip - but I
> > wonder if this issue mainly relates to grass-fed AD. This is quite
common
> in
> > some German-speaking countries, encouraged by generous prices for
> > electricity from biogas. I wonder if farmers under financial pressure
have
> > been tempted to cut corners?
> >
> >
> >
> > Duncan Martin PhD
> >
> > Cloughjordan Ecovillage
> >
> > Ireland
> >
> > www.thevillage.ie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 13 February 2011 23:37, Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have received this from a few people now...it is clearly circulating
> > widely.  I have plenty of comments regarding the soil aspects, and
> certainly
> > some of the AD sludge contents from industrial or black water plants is
a
> > bit beyond my expertise, but I would certainly appreciate some comments
> from
> > this group, especially any Germans that can comment on the YouTube part.
> > This guy clearly is now against biogas, and it would make sense to have
> some
> > good responses to this type of thing.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Dear Kamal,
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Besides the clear and proven advantages of biogas there are at least two
> > extremely severe problems:
> >
> > Organic matter that is converted into gas is no longer availabel to
produce
> > humus, so there are reports from farmers that the soil is getting less
and
> > less producticve. Rich soil may be far more important that the
relatively
> > litte amount of gas. Composting expecially with earthworms and additon
of
> > some charcoal dust (can easily be made from straw, rice husks instead of
> the
> > terrible burning) ideally plus stone dust can be far more beneficial
with
> > rising productivity for food and more biomass and is simple, too. At
TUHH
> we
> > are now working intensely of also composting urine and mixed excreta
> > stabilised by lactofermenters together with woody wastes to make more
soil
> > as I want to work with ecolocical agriculture and not do industrial
> > agriculture with addion of fast fertiliser. Biogas can be a threat for
long
> > term food security and you will have to pay for the gas with more and
more
> > fertiliser demand, less water reproduction, flooding through compacting
> > soils.
> >
> > In Germany (see   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cNyyU3zcXY sorry in
> > German) (and probably elsewhere)  there are dramatic problems with the
> > masses of heavily subsidised biogas plants for food to energy producion
> > where *Clostridium botulinum *is growing rapidly under anaerobic
> > conditions producing the highly toxic substance, there are hundreds of
> farms
> > where all milk cows are dying and the farmers are ruined, even they
became
> > ill sometimes. The reason are fodder fields that are fertilised with the
> > sludge from the biogas plants. The very dangerouos botulinum toxin
(misused
> > by people who hate aging by paralysing nerves in the face thus turning
it
> > into a mask, then called botox) is only showing effect after many month
so
> > the effect is often not related to the cause.
> >
> > I used to be very positive towards biogas and have planned and built
them,
> > I will not do this anymore except for some industrial wastewaters. Maybe
> > also for sanitation in areas where the soils are super humus rich
already
> > and botulism can be avoided safely.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Ralf
> >
> > For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexander Eaton
> > Sistema Biobolsa
> > IRRI-Mexico
> > RedBioLAC
> >
> > Mex cel: (55) 11522786
> > US cel: 970 275 4505
> >
> > alex at irrimexico.org
> > alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
> >
> > sistemabiobolsa.com
> > www.irrimexico.org
> > www.redbiolac.org
> >
> >
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> >
> > for more information about digestion, see
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> > for more information about digestion, see
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Vianney Tumwesige
> Director - Green Heat (U) Ltd  [image: Picture]
> P.O. Box 10235
> Kampala-Uganda
> 256 (0) 71 237 9889
>
> "The more people are self sufficient in cooking fuel, the more personal
and
> financial freedom they have." - Emma Casson
>
>
>  <http://trustvianney.wordpress.com/>
>

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for more information about digestion, see
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http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/