[Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions (Peter Edgar)
Guiavarch Erell
guiavarch at sol3d.com
Mon Jan 17 02:23:00 CST 2011
I would be interested in seeing the report as others would.
*Erell Guiavarch
Ingénieur R&D
*
** *S3d - Solutions Déchets et Développement Durable
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Le 16/01/2011 21:00, digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org a écrit :
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions (Peter Edgar)
> 2. Re: Biogas conversation rates (Franssen, Loe (Alumni))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:08:05 -0000
> From: "Peter Edgar"<peter.edgar at virgin.net>
> To: "For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion"
> <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
> Message-ID:<B63B6B01BDD4422DBE81E50F7A16160E at ownerdb5323367>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I as a layman but interested farmer, property developer would also be very interested in seeing the report
> Keep up the good work ladies and gentlemen
> Peter Edgar
> FIDM
> Risk Approvals group Ltd
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Coleman, Pat (Canada)
> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 12:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
>
>
> I would be interested in seeing the report as others would.
>
>
>
> Pat Coleman, PhD PEng
> Pat.F.Coleman at aecom.com
> Manager of Process Technology - Wastewater Treatment
>
> AECOM.
>
>
>
> T: 905.712.7025 Mississauga (leave a message and it will be emailed to me wherever I am)
> T. 905.747.7595 Markham
>
> C. 647.637.2898
> www.aecom.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Marie
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:42 PM
> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> Cc: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> I am currently doing a report on approximately 20 small scale UK farm digesters, looking at various parameters and what makes a successful digester installation. Current 'industry' thinking is that digesters at this scale are not economically viable. However, the smallest of these has been running successfully for 20 years on an organic farm with 65 cows, saving thousands by using the gas to heat the house and diary washings. The average Uk dairy herd is about 112 cows. Another one here has been running for more than 20 years, heating a very large manor house. Another interesting digester running for more than two years digesting slurry from cows bedded on woodchip and sand,, as well as chicken muck. It has an automatic degritting system and the digester does not have to be stopped.
>
>
>
> At this scale, the reason for the success of these systems are that they separate the digestate which comes out of the digester, they use inexpensive and easily maintained gas mixing which means a low parasitic load (one is as little as 1watt/cubic meter), the loading is typically simple auger or gravity feed straight into the digester, the control system is very simple and the digester is integrated into the farmyard. Suitable cast iron boilers have lasted for 20 years and are still running.
>
>
>
> If you are interested in the report, let me know and I can send a link/copy when it is published.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Angie Bywater
>
>
> On 13 Jan 2011, at 17:16,<armoss at umd.edu>un wrote:
>
> Charles-
> There's at least one small-scale digester of that size currently operating in the U.S. - at the USDA Beltsville Agricultural Research Center in Beltsville, MD. The dairy's herd size is roughly 125-130, with ~100 milking and producing manure at any given time (dry cattle are let out to pasture). The digester was built in 1994 and was constructed as a continuous stirred-tank reactor. I have tentative plans to conduct research on this digester simultaneously with a low-cost, pilot-scale digester project operating on the same waste-stream that's being constructed by our lab group at the University of Maryland. I don't have intimate knowledge of the USDA CSTR's history, but I can tell you what I know.
>
> The digester was originally constructed for odor control as an upright, cylindrical concrete tank (I'm not sure enough of the designed HRT to give you information on it), and was later insulated with gunnite-coated styrofoam. It operates on mechanically screw-press separated, scraped waste, and utilizes the biogas produced to power a boiler that circulates hot water through a conveyance system installed within the digester for heating; a combined heat and power electric generator was installed in the mid-2000s, but it has never been brought online. The digester's had a number of problems come up, including repeated clogging of the supply lines (originally 3-4" ID, now 6"), the break down of the screw-press separator and supply pumps, and the corrosion of the boiler due to inadequate scrubbing. To be fair, many of the problems associated with the digester are the result of fluctuating research interest, funds, management, and the lack of an effective biogas scrubbing system, but they exist all the same. Currently, the digester is up and operating... although obviously not ideally.
>
> Although most of the digestion systems are covered lagoons, the AgSTAR website contains a link to a Excel file detailing the digesters currently registered in the EPA's system (look under "Farm Project Profiles"). A few of them approximate the herd numbers you're interested in.
>
> As a side note, our research at the University of Maryland, together with research at Ohio State and the University of Wisconsin, is attempting to introduce smaller-scale, lower-cost systems in the U.S. I gave a presentation in October on small-scale digestion and some of the current efforts that you can find here.
>
> Good luck hunting!
>
> -Andy
>
> Andrew R. MossSustainable Agriculture Research& Education FellowUniversity of Maryland Dept. of Environmental Science and Technology1445 Animal Sci./Ag. Engineering (Bldg. 142)University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742Phone: (865) 363-5535
> ---- Original message ----
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:00:06 -0800
> From:<digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 5
> To:<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> >Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
> > digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> >than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."
> >________________>Today's Topics:> > 1. Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions (Gould, Merrill)> 2. Re: 250kW hot water biogas boiler (Ian Bywater)> 3. Re: Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions (Randy Mott)> 4. Re: Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions (Sam Wampler)> 5. Re: Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions (David Fulford)>________________>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:07:41 +0000>From: "Gould, Merrill"<gouldm at anr.msu.edu> >Subject: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions>To: "digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org"<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
>
>
>
> Greetings:
>
>
>
> I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
>
> 1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I say small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows, which is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has been their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small farms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had numerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting in a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small farms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle with digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has their experience been with their digester?
>
> 2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an energy producing system?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
>
>
>
> Charles Gould
>
> Michigan State University Extension
>
> West Olive, Michigan
>
>
>
> >________________>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 20:51:07 +1300>From: Ian Bywater<ian.bywater at naturalsystems.co.nz> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] 250kW hot water biogas boiler>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> Hi Edward,
>
>
>
> I know a boiler expert here in Christchurch, New Zealand that I'm sure has the right expertise and can help.
>
>
>
> Ian Bywater
>
> On 7/01/2011, at 8:42 PM, Edward Matos wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> A milk processing company in our vicinity (Tanga, Tanzania) has had a lasting interest in converting its milk pasteurising process from running on propane to running on biogas. I am doing them a little favour by helping them to make a feasibility study and find the right people that will make this happen. Unfortunately I have very little experience in biogas combustion and would like to find out if anyone here is/knows someone who could help us on this subject.
>
>
>
> _________________
>
> Director, Natural Systems Limited
>
> (Unit 5B/ 3 Settlers Crescent)
>
> PO Box 41032
>
> Christchurch 8247
>
> New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
>
> T +64(0)3 376 5549
>
> M +64(0)27 579 6333
>
> F +64(0)3 365 4146
>
> S bywateri
>
> W www.naturalsystems.co.nz
>
> The Most Exciting Green Technology Company in New Zealand (NBR 2008)
>
> Bayer Innovators Award finalist, 2010, Agriculture and Environment category
>
> NZ patent 530362
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:50:57 +0100>From: "Randy Mott"<randymott at ceeres.eu> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions>To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
>
>
>
> We don?t do projects in the US, but my understanding is that 500 cows is a rule of thumb. I have some literature?.
>
>
>
> On Rankin cycle engines, we have followed it closely in Europe and the US. There is about 15% more electricity that can come from the heat exhaust of the initial generators. The capex is about 1250 Euro/kW. We don?t have much incentive to do it in Poland since we sell the heat and also obtain a co-generation certificate for each MWe.
>
>
>
> GE Jenbacher is doing some development in Europe and eventually, I believe, will be trying to offer this as an option on its generators.
>
>
>
> Randy Mott
>
> CEERES
>
> Warsaw
>
>
>
>
>
> From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Gould, Merrill
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:08 PM
> To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
>
>
>
> Greetings:
>
>
>
> I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
>
> 1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I say small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows, which is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has been their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small farms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had numerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting in a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small farms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle with digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has their experience been with their digester?
>
> 2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an energy producing system?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
>
>
>
> Charles Gould
>
> Michigan State University Extension
>
> West Olive, Michigan
>
>
>
> >________________>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 05:20:28 -0800>From: Sam Wampler<smwampler at avatarenergy.com> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> Why don?t you have Kevin answer the below question about a small digester.
>
>
>
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> smwampler at avatarenergy.com
>
> www.avatarenergy.com
>
> 336.446.9305 (Google Voice)
>
> 336.824.1389 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Randy Mott
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:51 AM
> To: 'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions
>
>
>
> We don?t do projects in the US, but my understanding is that 500 cows is a rule of thumb. I have some literature?.
>
>
>
> On Rankin cycle engines, we have followed it closely in Europe and the US. There is about 15% more electricity that can come from the heat exhaust of the initial generators. The capex is about 1250 Euro/kW. We don?t have much incentive to do it in Poland since we sell the heat and also obtain a co-generation certificate for each MWe.
>
>
>
> GE Jenbacher is doing some development in Europe and eventually, I believe, will be trying to offer this as an option on its generators.
>
>
>
> Randy Mott
>
> CEERES
>
> Warsaw
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Gould, Merrill
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:08 PM
> To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
>
>
>
> Greetings:
>
>
>
> I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
>
> 1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I say small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows, which is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has been their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small farms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had numerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting in a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small farms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle with digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has their experience been with their digester?
>
> 2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an energy producing system?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
>
>
>
> Charles Gould
>
> Michigan State University Extension
>
> West Olive, Michigan
>
>
>
> >________________>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:22:12 +0000>From: David Fulford<davidf at kingdombio.com> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >Cc: "Gould, Merrill"<gouldm at anr.msu.edu> >
> Charles and listers,
>
> The best source of information on AD in USA is the AgSTAR project run by EPA (www.epa.gov/agstar/). They have a database of digesters, which includes a few small ones.
>
> They point to the Minnesota Project (www.mnproject.org) which is trying to concentrate on biogas for small farms (125 cattle or less).
>
> Regards,
>
> David F
>
> On 11/01/2011 17:07, Gould, Merrill wrote:
>
> Greetings:
>
>
>
> I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
>
> 1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I say small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows, which is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has been their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small farms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had numerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting in a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small farms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle with digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has their experience been with their digester?
>
> 2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an energy producing system?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
>
>
>
> Charles Gould
>
> Michigan State University Extension
>
> West Olive, Michigan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________Digestion mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email addressDigestion at bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org for more information about digestion, seeBeginner's Guide to Biogashttp://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
> --
>
> ********************************************************************
> Dr David Fulford CEnv MEI, 15, Brandon Ave, Woodley, Reading RG5 4PU
> d.j.fulford at btinternet.com, Tel: +44(0)118 326 9779 Mob: +44(0)7746 806401
> Kingdom Bioenergy Ltd, www.kingdombio.com, davidf at kindombio.com
>
> >________________>_______________________________________________>Digestion mailing list> >to Send a Message to the list, use the email address>Digestion at bioenergylists.org> >to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org> >for more information about digestion, see>Beginner's Guide to Biogas>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/>and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:34:06 +0100
> From: "Franssen, Loe (Alumni)"
> <LLC.Franssen at alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl>
> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates
> Message-ID:
> <0936452FDABCB945A21B7F5AB72DB8D41468107E1A at UM-MAIL4113.unimaas.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hey Duncan (and the others),
>
> thanks for your elaborate answer ! I'm sorry for being unspecific. Let me be a bit more specific and take the kerosene conversion rate because the information on this one is the most inconsistent.
>
> Assumptions
> Consumption rate simple wick kerosene lamp; 0,01 liter kerosene per hour
> Biogas lamp; 70 liters of gas per hour (specifications of the lamp that will be supplied: http://kingoni.en.ec21.com/Biogas_Lamp--3003470_3352352.html)
> Lumen output of a simple wick kerosene lamp 7,8 lumen
> biogas lamp; 50 lumen (not sure on this number as there is a large range for it right?!)
> Calculation
> so 1 liter of kerosene is equivalent to 7000 liter gas. After correcting for lumen output, 1 liter of kerosene is equal to 1,077 liter of gas
>
> If i use calorific values i get the following result
>
> 1kilo kerosene = 46 mj/kg with a density of 0,95 kg/l so
>
> 1 liter kerosene = 43,7 mj/l
>
> 1m3 biogas is 22.5mJ
>
> 1 liter biogas = 0,0225 mJ
>
>
>
> 1L kerosene = (43.7/0.0225) = 1942,22L biogas
>
>
> Quite a difference hm probably because of the lumen i took for the biogas lamp and the consumption rates?! do you have recommendations on these numbers?
>
> Then another small question.. for anthracite charcoal i found a calorific value of 27mJ/kg, for lignite charcoal 15 mj/kg. I'm talking about charcoal that these rural african farmers simply make in their backyard. i assume i should take 15 mj/kg then right?! or even less?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> ________________________________
> Van: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] namens Duncan Martin [duncanjmartin at gmail.com]
> Verzonden: zaterdag 15 januari 2011 10:51
> Aan: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> Onderwerp: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates
>
> Hi Loe
>
> A few quick comments:
>
> 1. You can check equivalences yourself by looking up the calorific values (heating values) of the three reference fuels. Go back to the raw data, rather than relying on the interpretations of others - who may well be biased. The data is readily available and it needs no more specialized knowledge to calculate equivalences than it does to calculate a currency conversion - which I am sure you could do in your sleep! *
>
> 2. Some of these fuels (eg biogas, firewood) are q variable so all equivalences would be best expressed as ranges. That might be one reason for the inconsistencies you mention. Make sure your source isn't based on biomethane - ie purified biogas.
>
> 3. Rating biogas per so many hours of cooking is meaningless unless better defined - are you assuming an open gas ring, an enclosed oven or what**? Just one burning at a time? What kind of food is being cooked - because some foods need long, slow cooking? (Maybe a better yardstick would be a typical daily household consumption.)
>
> 4. Rating biogas per so many hours of lighting is equally meaningless. How many lights? What output? A reasonable assumption for this application might be a single ~40W-equivalent to light a single room - but state it.
>
> * If that sounds unhelpful, it comes from long experience of university teaching - and exposure to a lot of "I am a student and I need someone to do my assignment for me" requests! You'll learn more if you learn how to work it out for yourself.
>
> ** A well known problem here is that the poorest people often (though not always) use the least efficient cooking methods - eg an open fire. A common site in urban Zimbabwe a few years ago was a pot suspended above an electric fire laid on its back!!!
>
> Duncan Martin
> Cloughjordan Ecovillage
> Ireland
>
> On 12 January 2011 13:52, Franssen, Loe (Alumni)<LLC.Franssen at alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl<mailto:LLC.Franssen at alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl>> wrote:
> Dear biogas experts,
> I am a 22 year old student from the Maastricht University where I am doing a bachelor in International Business. I am currently doing an internship for a Dutch biogas company that is planning to sell systems in East Africa. I am developing a huge mathematical model that calculates - among other things - how big (m?) a digester should be for those households. I want to determine this on the basis of the kilo?s of charcoal and firewood and liters of kerosene they already use and also on the basis of cooking time and lighting hours. After studying several articles from GTZ, SNV, and master or Phd. students? reports I came to the following conversion rates and I was hoping you guys could give your opinion on it.
>
>
> Source
>
> Charcoal (kg)>> Gas (l)
>
> 500
>
> GTZ article Biogas digest volume 1<http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/en-biogas-volume1.pdf>
> GTZ article Biogas digest volume 1
>
> firewood (kg)>> Gas (l)
>
> 200
>
> Kerosene (l)>> Gas (l)
>
> 1600
>
> link 1<http://www.shvoong.com/humanities/1957301-biogas-making-technique-simplified/>
>
> link 2<http://www.inseda.org/Presentation/Biogas-the%20future%20Sustainable%20Energy-Fr%20Mathew.pdf>
>
> link 3<http://www.eplantscience.com/index_files/biotechnology/Biotechnology%20and%20environment/Biomass%20Energy%20(Bio-energy)/biotech_bio-energy_gaseous_fuels.php>
>
>
> Cooking (hrs)>> Gas (l)
>
> 300
>
> Lighting (hrs)>> Gas (l)
>
> 70
>
> SNVworld.org link4<http://www.snvworld.org/en/Documents/Biogas_stoves_and_lamps_test_report_2009.pdf>
>
>
>
> I am particularly concerned about the conversion rate from liters of kerosene to liters of biogas. The results I found online don?t seem to be very constant. I tried to do some calculations myself but I have no idea how to calculate this (my background is (micro-) finance) so I was hoping you could shed some lights on these numbers!!
> Kind regards,
> Loe Franssen Maastricht University student
>
>
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> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
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> for more information about digestion, see
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> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 10
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