[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
Charlie Ramos
cramos at biogreenengineering.com
Wed Mar 7 09:53:57 CST 2012
Dear Chandler,
I have used PVC and PE (very expensive) for biogas pipe lines with no major
issues (over 700 ADs and +5 years of operation). As Mr. Klaus mentioned if
you are using PVC above ground, you will have to paint it to protect it from
the UV rays. We have installed the gas pipes above ground and underground.
For the operational point of view the above ground installations were a
better choice for the following reasons:
1) Easier to repair/maintain
2) Easier to detect an issue
3) Less water condensation issues
4) Less issues during the rainy season
5) You do not have worry about the seasonal water table fluctuations or
flooding events
Make sure you to slope the gas pipe(s) the correct direction so the
condensate doesn't plug your gas line(s). If you cannot avoid low points,
remove the condensate at these points...the least expensive way to do this
is installing J-traps.
As for the "white" fouling, we have seen it too and even though we never
tested it, I don't think is silica. My gut feeling is that these white
fouling are salt crystals that were carried by the saturated gas and left on
the pipe after the condensate evaporates or gets removed. The "white"
fouling never created major issues that required a remediation action plan.
Best regards and good luck on your endeavor!
Charlie Ramos
BioGreen Engineering LLC
cramos at biogreenengineering.com
+1-407-459-7806 (office)
+1-407-412-0165 (cell)
-----Original Message-----
From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Klauspeter
Hankel
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 7:39 AM
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
Dear Chandler,
maybe, the "white" fouling, you have observed is some sulphur also? ...
PVC, PE or PP, all these materials can be used for gas pipes, specially when
you have planned to bring them into the ground also. There will be no risk
of chemical corrosion from inside.
PVC must get protected against light, else it will get brittle soon, can be
done by painting. PVC doesnt change its length to much, as it is with PE and
PP. PE and PP pipes specially will need suport, if you want to bridge a
larger distance, to avoid bending.
Klaus Peter Hankel
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 09:59:48 -0800
> Von: digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> An: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Betreff: Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1 (Carmine Bocchino)
> 2. Re: plastic pipework (Anand Karve)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:48:42 +1000
> From: "Carmine Bocchino" <bocchtech at bigpond.com>
> To: <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1
> Message-ID: <8E0143F641EA4650A1D89C56D38ADFB0 at Cavallier>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello
>
> I have used all the plastics you refer to and PVC is adequate.
> PE is better but more expensive. PVC will do the job; ensure dry ends
> before gluing and allow the joints at least 24hrs to settle before
> using.
>
> Carmine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 3:59 AM
> To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 1
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. plastic pipework (Chandler)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 18:19:02 +0100
> From: Chandler <chandlerhatton at simgas.org>
> To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Digestion] plastic pipework
> Message-ID:
> <CAP=kLCJDQkdfkZi6NYxgYybjMxB+cubCu=YyUctMKMHUUV10LQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi all,
>
>
> I am working to implement biogas in East Africa, and I?m curious about
> whether there is a preferred plastic polymer for use in plastic biogas
> pipework. Most affordable, readily available plastic pipes and
> fittings are made from PVC (polyvinylchloride), PE (polyethylene), or
> PP (polypropylene).
>
> - Is one of these materials better than the other two for use in gas
> lines? And is there a material that should be avoided for use in
> biogas
> pipework (i.e. due to chemical corrosion, UV damage, or creep?)
>
> - In particular, I am concerned about the accumulation of white
> (silica?) deposits in biogas pipework. Does the use of plastic piping
> reduce the buildup of this white substance? And very specifically, does
> this white substance accumulate on PP fittings?
>
> Any thoughts on these two questions are very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Chandler
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:35:27 +0800
> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] plastic pipework
> Message-ID:
> <CACPy7SdC6feC3Rw5aQZD9sS6GqLy3OHYA0UEXdrx74=1FoWDuA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Dear Chandler,
> we use PVC pipes and fittings that are also used by plumbers and which
> are readily available in all hardware shops. I don't think that the
> white deposit that you mention is silica. It could be calcium
> carbonate. Water generally has calcium bicarbonate dissolved it. By
> combining with one more molecule of carbon dioxide, it forms calcium
> carbonate, which is insoluble in water and which therefore
> precipitates out. The pipes can be periodically cleaned of this
> substance by passing a mild solution of hydrochloric acid through the
pipes.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Chandler <chandlerhatton at simgas.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > I am working to implement biogas in East Africa, and I?m curious
> > about whether there is a preferred plastic polymer for use in
> > plastic biogas pipework. Most affordable, readily available plastic
> > pipes and fittings are made from PVC (polyvinylchloride), PE
> > (polyethylene), or PP (polypropylene).
> >
> > - Is one of these materials better than the other two for use in gas
> > lines? And is there a material that should be avoided for use in
> > biogas pipework (i.e. due to chemical corrosion, UV damage, or
> creep?)
> >
> > - In particular, I am concerned about the accumulation of white
> > (silica?) deposits in biogas pipework. Does the use of plastic piping
> > reduce the buildup of this white substance? And very
> > specifically,
> does
> > this white substance accumulate on PP fittings?
> >
> > Any thoughts on these two questions are very much appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chandler
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Digestion at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioen
> ergylists.org
> >
> > for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
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>
>
> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
> ****************************************
--
kind regards / mit freundlichen Gruessen, Klaus Peter Hankel
Consultant for Biogas, Renewable Energy & Natural Resources
phone: +49 176 21528382 (G) / +91 98791 10739 (I)
email: kapehankel at gmx.de
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