[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 52, Issue 5

Anand Karve adkarve at gmail.com
Mon Jan 12 21:21:35 CST 2015


Dear Mr Gokhale,

All I wanted to say was that the material going into a biogas plant
has to have a high calorific value and high digestibility. I did use
sugar in my lab. experiments, but  nowadays I recommend using waste
food, which includes soft peels of fruits like banana, papaya and
mango, fruit residues from  juice bars, slaughterhouse waste,
restaurant waste, non-edible oilcakes  like castor, cotton, jatropha
etc. Using human bodies for methanogenesis is your idea. I don't
endorse it.
A.D.Karve
***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)


On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Vishwas Gokhale
<vishwasgokhale860 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  What Dr. Karve says is a brilliant idea.. However there are problems. Sugar
> is food item and definitely it cannot be used for biogas production. If you
> are thinking of some more  brillient ideas you can suggest that human bodies
> after the death should be be cut in pieces and put in biogas plant . You
> have still more brilliant idea you should suggest  muslim and christian dead
> bodies  should be shreaded  put in biogas plant  . This will produce biogas
> for human cooking needs. This will also prevent the use of land for buring
> and will make more land for human habitation.
>
> There will be world war if you suggest such ideas.
>
> Vishwas Gokhale
>
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 12:30 AM,
> <digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Lessons Learned from the dissemination of Biodigesters
>>       for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013. (Anand Karve)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 08:27:24 +0530
>> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
>>         <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of
>>         Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <CACPy7Sc=B9fCAQuK_qo7jZBSy-K2K_FvUaOSfoeEicuXWTCDFA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Jaime and others,
>>
>> Let me explain the background of my thoughts. I am an agricultural
>> scientist and I started working on biogas in 2003, at the age of 67. The
>> reason was my realization that if we wanted the methane  producing
>> organisms to produce a high calorie substance like methane we must feed
>> them with a high calorie material. I therefore constructed a biogas plant
>> and when I fed it with sugar, I found that I could get the same amount of
>> biogas from 1 kg sugar as from 40 kg cattle dung. I then tested starch,
>> proteins, fats, cellulose and got more or less the same results. In 2004
>> we
>> installed these biogas plants in 40 urban households, which had no access
>> to cattle dung. In 2005, I read a paper on our work in a conference. The
>> audience just did not believe me. They said that food would produce biogas
>> only if it was co-fermented with cattle dung. Since then I have been
>> advocating that if dung is to be used as a source of energy, it should be
>> burned and not converted into biogas. My detractors then countered my
>> views
>> with the argument that the slurry of a dung based biogas plant could be
>> used as fertilizer. I showed that this too was a wrong notion. If one
>> wanted to feed the soil microbes with an organic source of food, one
>> should
>> use a substance with high nutritive value. Just 25 kg sugar added to a ha
>> of agricultural land, would give the same results as a 10 tons of compost.
>> In fact, this method of farming has now become quite popular in India and
>> there are thousands of farmers who apply neither compost nor chemical
>> fertilizers to their field, but just 25 kg sugar per ha, once every 3
>> months. One can equally well apply 125 kg green leaves per ha and get the
>> same results.
>>
>> Yours
>>
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>
>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>>
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Jaime Marti Herrero <
>> tallerbiogas at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > hi Dr Karve
>> >  you said "Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very
>> > efficient way of getting biogas" and i am agree with you. but many
>> > digesters are installed in places where there are only manure able to
>> > fed
>> > the digester. manure that if is not properly handle will be pollutant.
>> > So,
>> > manure can be used for composting, anaerobic digestion or vermiculture
>> > (and
>> > some cases gasification), and one could combine these differnt
>> > techniques.
>> >  biogas is not only the main focus, also to produce bioslurry as
>> > fertilizer
>> > and use the digester as waste treatment system. this is the concept of
>> > productive biogas (more information here:
>> >
>> > http://www.snvworld.org/download/publications/snv_fact_productive_biogas_2014_final.pdf
>> > )
>> > about the value of the bioslurry as fertilizer you can find more
>> > information here publihed in 2014:
>> > From FAO: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3441e.pdf
>> > From Hivos: https://www.hivos.org/sites/default/files/bioslurry_book.pdf
>> > From SNV:
>> >
>> > http://www.snvworld.org/en/download/publications/alterra_report_2519_bioslurry.pdf
>> >
>> > So we are not only focused in biogas.  I think, that this is a weak
>> > vision
>> > of the anaerobic digestion. nutrient recycling should be as important as
>> > biogas production. So perhaps manure is not as efficient as other
>> > sunstrates for biogas protucion, but is also a waste that we can use.
>> >
>> > about the efficiency of digesters, as commented in previous mails, the
>> > highest efficiency is found in the mobile digester that are the animal.
>> > So
>> > one idea could be that crude waste chould go first to a animal stomach
>> > (pigs, cow, chiken, worms...) and introduce their waste in a sencod
>> > artificil digester as a second treatment system.
>> >
>> > But at the end, exist several situations that make posible a variety of
>> > strategies, from anaerobic digestion in urban areas, where no animals
>> > are
>> > found to eat the crude organic waste, or digesters fed with manure (from
>> > animal that have been fed with crude waste or crops) in rural areas, or
>> > combination of both, or other ideas/technologies. Finally one adapts the
>> > technology to the situation and substrates.
>> >
>> > So making biogas from feces of animals is a very efficient way of
>> > getting
>> > biogas when no other substare is able. and not only biogas, also
>> > bioslurry
>> > and waste treatment
>> > sorry about my english
>> >
>> > keep in touch
>> > jaime
>> >
>> > -----
>> > *Jaime Mart? Herrero, PhD. *
>> >
>> > *INER* (www.iner.gob.ec). *Biomasa*
>> >
>> > *CIMNE (*www.cimne.com). *Building Energy and Environment Group*
>> >
>> > Quito ? Ecuador. Tel. (+593)-09 857 03726
>> >
>> > *BIOGAS and Latin America*
>> > -RedBioLAC:http://redbiolac.org/
>> >
>> > -Taller Biogas Bolivia:http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com
>> > <http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com/>
>> > -Biodigestores familiares: Gu?a de dise?o y manual de instalaci?n:
>> >
>> > http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2008_jmh_guia_biodigestores.pdf
>> >
>> > -Desarrollo, difusi?n e implementaci?n de tecnolog?as
>> > apropiadas:Biodigestores en Bolivia
>> >
>> > <http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf>
>> > :
>> >
>> > http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:59:23 +0530
>> > From: adkarve at gmail.com
>> > To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of
>> > Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Murali,
>> > calorific value of methane from 1kg dung should read as 200 kcal and not
>> > plain calories.
>> > Yours
>> > A.D.Karve
>> >
>> > ***
>> > Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >
>> > Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>> >
>> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> > (ARTI)
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Murali Krishna <bmkrishna6 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Good day Dr. Karve,
>> >
>> > Undoubtedly all the animals are mobile digesters and they convert their
>> > food into energy and the undigested is let out into Nature. Law of
>> > Nature
>> > does not permit 100% percent digestion of food in their digestive track
>> > and
>> > they have to excrete and this excreta is food for some other animals
>> > that
>> > exist down the line.  There used to be a recycling balance in the nature
>> > when the species co-existed in a proportional order. Now due to the
>> > explosion of population of species, living styles, dwelling space, and
>> > several other changes, we find everywhere untreated waste. *Somewhere,
>> > someone in the line has to handle waste and we cannot allow the fecal
>> > matter release CH4 into atmosphere.* Urban dwelling seldom permit Nature
>> > to take its own course and recycle nor we have space to let the other
>> > animals roam around and take care of it for several reasons.
>> >
>> > Now the question is whether recycling of excreta of species (including
>> > human species) is worth recycling.  Yes, it is and it has to be.  We
>> > cannot
>> > allow emissions even in small quantity. And this type of projects are
>> > economically viable too!   Above all, now there is equipment to evacuate
>> > the digesters.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Murali Krishna
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Anthony,
>> > the report is too big for my computer to handle. Can you provide a
>> > short summary of the findings? As a person who has been studying
>> > biogas technology for the last 15 years, I have my own opinions about
>> > using fecal matter as a source of biogas. Please note that under
>> > anaerobic conditions, the microbes survive by taking oxygen from their
>> > food. Therefore, one must provide them with substances that contain
>> > oxygen in their molecules. The methanogens use the oxygen in their
>> > food for their own metabolism and give out methane. ammonia and H2S,
>> > none of which ontains oxygen. All animals, including humans represent
>> > living biogas plants and their fecal matter represents material that
>> > is predominently indigestible to the biogas producing organisms.
>> > Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very efficient
>> > way of getting biogas. Secondly, if you used human fecal matter as the
>> > major feedstock, and if by chance the biogas plant goes out of order,
>> > you may not find anybody willing to repair it.
>> > Yours
>> > A.D.Karve
>> > ***
>> > Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >
>> > Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>> >
>> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> > (ARTI)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Anthony Kilbride
>> > <anthony.kilbride at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Dear Biodigestion list,
>> > >
>> > > Happy New year!
>> > >
>> > > I have been quietly observing the discussions of the Digestion list
>> > > for a
>> > > year or more and I have gained a great insight into the world of ABD
>> > through
>> > > the various exchanges between members of the digestion list. I would
>> > like to
>> > > thank all of you who take the time to communicate your findings on the
>> > > forum; results, successes and challenges. The forum is truly a great
>> > > resource and it is wonderful to see so many individuals and groups
>> > > from
>> > all
>> > > over the world who are so open and generous in sharing their
>> > > information.
>> > >
>> > > I now have some information of my own to share, in the form of a
>> > > lessons
>> > > learned document on the experiences of the dissemination of
>> > > Biodigesters
>> > for
>> > > Sanitation in Haiti, from 2010 to 2013. The research was undertaken by
>> > the
>> > > NGO; Norwegian Church Aid (NCA).
>> > > The report in its entirety can be viewed here:
>> > >
>> >
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qqu3qpkhohatol/NCA_Biogas%20report_EN.pdf?dl=0
>> > >
>> > > Whilst sanitation and the corresponding public health gains are not
>> > > the
>> > > objectives of many of the users of the forum (usually energy and
>> > recycling
>> > > of nutrients in slurry are the main objectives), there is nevertheless
>> > > a
>> > > substantial volume of work being undertaken using biodigesters for
>> > > sanitation, and the Haitian experience is one such example which I
>> > > hope
>> > will
>> > > provide interesting reading for biogas practitioners.
>> > >
>> > > I welcome feedback on the report, and I wish you all the greatest
>> > possible
>> > > success in 2015!
>> > >
>> > > Hoorooh!
>> > >
>> > > Anthony Kilbride.
>> > > WASH Manager.
>> > > NCA Haiti.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Digestion mailing list
>> > >
>> > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > > Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>> > >
>> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> > >
>> >
>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > >
>> > > for more information about digestion, see
>> > > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> > > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> > > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Digestion mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more information about digestion, see
>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards.
>> >
>> > Murali Krishna
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Protect Mother Nature
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Digestion mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>> >
>> >
>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more information about digestion, see
>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________ Digestion mailing list
>> > to
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>> > use the web page
>> >
>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ and the Biogas Wiki
>> > http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Digestion mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>> >
>> > for more information about digestion, see
>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> for more information about digestion, see
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 52, Issue 5
>> ****************************************
>
>
>
>
> --
> Vishwas Gokhale
> Principal consultant
> GIT Associates
> 1034/2/B, 6 Annapurna Apts,
> Model Colony,
> Pune 411016
> Ph:- 091 20 25651405
> Mo. 0919822604274
>
>
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> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>




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