<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi<div><br></div><div>We have a similar problem here with our small digesters, and typically use cow manure as a starter. We have also looked into the tablets, and yes they are enzymes, and really don't do what's required. Sorry not to be able to offer a solution, but hope someone else can provide ideas?!</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Candara; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Candara; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Candara; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Candara; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Candara; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><div><div><div>-- <br><br>Greg Austin<br>AGAMA Biogas (Pty) Ltd<br>T +27 21 7013364<br>F +27 21 7024920<br>E <a href="mailto:greg.austin@agama.co.za">greg.austin@agama.co.za</a><br>W <a href="http://www.agama.co.za">www.agama.co.za</a><br></div><div>W <a href="http://www.biogaspro.com">www.biogaspro.com</a></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#1600FF" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px;"><br></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div><div><div>On 29 Sep 2010, at 4:47 AM, <a href="mailto:digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Send Digestion mailing list submissions to<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>digestion-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Inoculation for Small Digesters (Marc de Piolenc)<br> 2. Re: Costs of different household biodigesters (Eric Buysman)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:44:58 +0800<br>From: Marc de Piolenc <piolenc@archivale.com><br>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Inoculation for Small Digesters<br>Message-ID: <4CA2A82A.1060105@archivale.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br><br>The tablets are probably enzymes, when what you need are the <br>microorganisms that produced the enzymes. You may need to produce your <br>own packaged inoculant, but if you succeed you may have a marketable <br>product. Research is the first step; find out the techniques used in <br>microbiological laboratories for culturing and preserving the organisms <br>you need, then see if they all have a common preservation medium.<br><br>Best,<br>Marc de Piolenc<br>Iligan City, Philippines<br><br>Archivale catalog: http://www.archivale.com/catalog<br>Polymath weblog: http://www.archivale.com/weblog<br>Translation services: http://www.proz.com/profile/639380<br>Ducted fans: http://massflow.archivale.com/<br><br>On 9/29/2010 1:07 AM, Alexander Eaton wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">HI All,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We have been doing our systems start (for small household scale<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">digesters) with the paunch waste from slaughterhouses, adding 50-100<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">liters of the waste along with manure and water as an initial charge.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Transporting this waste (wet, heavy, and a bit nasty) is a bit of a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pain. My technicians keeping hinting at better incolculant solutions,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and I would like to see if there is anyone out there making really<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">effective inoculates (or knows how to make them) that are dry, simple to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">apply, but really effective in starting a digester. Efficient and fast<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">start-up is a really crucial aspect of technology adoptions, and using<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">effluent from functioning digesters or the paunch waste has produced the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">best results for us as far as start-up rates. We have seen a brand of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">tablets for septic tanks, but we have not found them to improve start-up<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">times as compared with straight manure. Thanks in advance.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Saludos,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">A<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Alexander Eaton<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sistema Biobolsa<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">IRRI-Mexico<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Mex cel: (55) 11522786<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">US cel: 970 275 4505<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com <mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">alexanderb.eaton@gmail.com <mailto:alexanderb.eaton@gmail.com><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sistemabiobolsa.com <http://sistemabiobolsa.com><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">www.irrimexico.org <http://www.irrimexico.org><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Digestion mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org<br></blockquote><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:47:36 -0700 (PDT)<br>From: Eric Buysman <ericishier@yahoo.com><br>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Costs of different household biodigesters<br>Message-ID: <6976.126.qm@web33805.mail.mud.yahoo.com><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>Dear all,<br><br>The investment costs (part paid by the farmer) in Cambodia are as follows:<br><br>Plant size 4 m3 6 m3 8 m3 10 m3 15 m3 <br>Estimated cost (USD)* 400 470 550 625 890 <br>Subsidy (USD) 150 150 150 150 150 <br><br>The digester model is a modified version of the Deenbandhu digester, a fixed <br>dome digester. The digester have a 2 year warranty and last typically for 15-20 <br>years. <br><br>On top of that users receive a flat rate subsidy of $150, which originates from <br>carbon finance. The program costs are, I believe, now $250 per biogas plants. <br>This is a joint SNV- Cambodian government programme.<br><br>In Vietnam the costs are almost 1 million VND per m3, that is around $50/m3 <br>digester volume, on top of that farmers receive a flat rate $50 subsidy. Their <br>digester model is based on the Chinese dome digester.<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Eric<br><br><br><br><br><br>________________________________<br>From: Alexander Eaton <alex@sistemabiobolsa.com><br>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 7:48:18 AM<br>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Costs of different household biodigesters<br><br>HI All, <br><br>We have reinforced polyethylene geomembrane digester in a variety of sizes that <br>come as a "kit" with all connections, biogas reservoir, geo-textil ground liner, <br>gas management systems with high pressure relief valve and filter, and simpler <br>burner. The system can be installed in the ground or above ground, and the <br>material has a 20 year guarantee. We service and guarantee the systems for two <br>years, and offer low cost service for the life of the system (currently only in <br>Mexico). There may be additional costs associated with a roof or greenhouse <br>structure for the digester. Note that Jaime has also included the price of a <br>greenhouse cover for the Bolivia systems, which many others leave out. Our <br>intention is no use of concrete, but sometimes there is a bit of work needed to <br>make the pig-pen or stable drain adequately to the digester. Retail prices (all <br>in) are below, and the sizes refer to m3. We have made systems of 1 and 2 m3 <br>for test purposes, but these are not much less expensive than that of 4 meters <br>as the entrance and exits cost the same and our asembly labor is nearly the same <br>as well (therefore larger systems are less expensive per m3). From these prices <br>we offer discounts for good programs, low income families, and for higher <br>quantities purchased. <br><br><br><br>Bolsa Sizes Costo (MXN) Costo (US$) <br>4 $9,292 $743 <br>8 $12,802 $1,024 <br>12 $16,312 $1,305 <br>16 $19,823 $1,586 <br>20 $20,515 $1,641 <br>30 $28,813 $2,305 <br><br>We also built a lot of regular plastic digesters in the style of Jaime <br>(Taiwanese or Preston Digester), and the costs in Mexico (same components, <br>double layer bag), were only about 10-20% lower. This is higher than Jaime has <br>shown, which could be because of higher material prices in Mexico. <br><br><br>For SNV's program in Africa, their prices for the concrete dome digesters were <br>nearly identical for those I listed above. We are quite a bit cheaper overall <br>as our system requires only a couple hours (one technician installs 3 per day) <br>versus a week of construction. Also, our materials prices are much cheaper at <br>higher volumes. <br><br><br>It is important to note that it can be very misleading to state "costs" for <br>these types of systems. These sorts of speculations often seem to project the <br>idea that someone is building the system in their backyard, and therefore it is <br>appropriate to externalize many of the costs. When installing the "appropriate <br>tech" style bag digester, there are a few days of installation preparation, plus <br>acquisition of materials, etc. Just pulling off the price tag of the materials <br>often does not appropriately encapsulate the full cost of the installation. <br>This tends to set up false expectations to those who would like to promote the <br>technology, or when a government wants to spend to have them installed. I <br>beleive (please comment Jaime) that the Bolivia program has a subsidy in place <br>for installation, transport, and labor, which is crucial to consider. The <br>families are also required to supply certain materials and labor for the <br>installation. <br><br><br>I also have a full study of Life Cycle Costs, which is arguably a better measure <br>of the cost of a system that you want to last a long time. With a longer <br>projected life span (and repairability), geomembrane digesters were about 40% <br>less expensive over a 10 year span than lower quality plastic systems. Dome <br>digester tend to hold their value longer in some cases, but there is a higher <br>abandonment rate due to slow gas leaks that reduce end user satisfaction. <br><br><br>Saludos,<br><br>A<br><br><br><br>On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Jaime Marti Herrero <tallerbiogas@hotmail.com> <br>wrote:<br><br>Hi<br><blockquote type="cite">plugflow digester made of tubular polyethilene cost in Bolivia:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-For cold climate : 230 us$ with 6.5m3 of liquid volume, green house, three <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">biogas reservoirs, and one bunner<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-For valley climate: 185 us$ with 3,5m3 of liquid volume, 66% sun cover, two <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">biogas reservoirs and one bunner<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-For tropical climate 168 us$ witk 3 m3 of liquid volume, 66% sun cover, two <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">biogas reservoirs and one bunner<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">all of are load with 20kg of fresh cow manure and 60 liters of water per day, <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">producing about 700 liters of biogas per day.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We have done 1m3 tubular polyethilene digester for research considerations using <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2m circunference plastic and 4,8 meters long. i dont have the cost because a <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">plastic factory donate this material to our laboratory.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">i hope this helps<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">keep in touch<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">jaime<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Jaime Mart? Herrero<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Technical advisor of biogas for the GTZ-Bolivia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">CIMNE (www.cimne.com)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Building Energy and Environment Group<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">International research cooperation area<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">La Paz ? Bolivia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Tel. (+591)-73 090 621<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">BIOGAS AND BOLIVIA<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-Taller Biogas Bolivia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-Video: Biodigester installation in bolivian Altiplano<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sl0XEN5Bgo<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs0JuV8WD_c<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-Manual gratuito-Biodigestores familiares: Gu?a de dise?o y manual de <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">instalaci?n<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://www.upc.edu/grecdh/pdf/2008_JMH_Guia_biodigestores.pdf<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">________________________________<br></blockquote> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:50:06 -0700<br><blockquote type="cite">From: ivomdb@gmail.com<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: [Digestion] Costs of different household biodigesters<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hi all,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I would like to know if anyone knows or have a good estimate of the cost of the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">following small scale biodigesters:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1- Plug-flow polyethylene biodigester type (like the ones in Bolivia) (between <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1-10 m3).... I don't know if it's possible to build one with such small size <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">like 1m3<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2- Chinese fixed-dome (between 1m3-10 m3)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3- ARTI type biodigester (1-2 m3)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ivo Oliveira<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________ Digestion mailing list <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Digestion mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br>-- <br>Alexander Eaton<br>Sistema Biobolsa<br>IRRI-Mexico<br><br>Mex cel: (55) 11522786<br>US cel: 970 275 4505<br><br>alex@sistemabiobolsa.com<br>alexanderb.eaton@gmail.com<br>sistemabiobolsa.com<br>www.irrimexico.org<br><br><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20100928/3ff167db/attachment.html><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Digestion mailing list<br>Digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br><br>End of Digestion Digest, Vol 1, Issue 17<br>****************************************<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>