HI Paul, <br><br>Thanks for the last post, but you left me with a question. Our data has shown pig manure is generally (roughly) between 20-25% TS, but the VS is often 70-80% of the TS, so between 10-20% of the total mass of the wet manure. This corresponds with other data I have seen (right in front of me House uses 20% TS and VS of 70% of TS for cow manure) You mention VS of only 10% of TS. Did you mean of the total, or is this a different type of manure, or am I missing something. <br>
<br>On another note, related to the standards we had discussed earlier this year, can anyone comment on using TOC to evaluate waste streams and biogas potential versus using COD? We were buy some new equipment for the lab, and the equipment salesman put the hard sell on for using TOC instead of COD to evaluate waste. Any thoughts? The immediate disadvantage I see is comparing past data with new data. <br>
<br>A<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Paul Harris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-AU">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">G’day All,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In the discussion below I see the term TS (Total Solids) used,
and it is important to remember that flour and sugar TS will be almost 100% VS
(Volatile Solids) and equate to very high COD per kg. It is VS/COD that is
available as substrate for anaerobic digestion, so when comparing other
substrates we really need a VS figure (or VS as % of TS) as a measure of digestibility
– manure VS is about 10% of TS so there will be huge differences.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I also noticed in an earlier post the comment about methanogens
being present in our digestive tract (I agree that they are), but why? I think
it has been suggested they balance the H+ and H2 system so our digestive system
can operate (so they may be “good” bugs) but it may also be that we
provide an environment for their survival so they compete for nutrients. I know
CSIRO have done work on reducing methane emissions from cattle so I will try to
follow that up and I will also ask a gastroenterology colleague here as well,
but comments are welcome.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Happy digesting,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">HOOROO</span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of
Sciences, The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA
5064 Ph : +61 8 8303 7880
Fax : +61 8 8303 4386 <a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue;">mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</span></a>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank"><span style="color: blue;">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">CRICOS Provider Number 00123M</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alexander
Eaton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 8 October 2010 3:30 AM<div class="im"><br>
<b>To:</b> For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Digestion] Attachment to previous Article - More
scientific based research and questions</div></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Thanks All for the background
documents. These are extremely useful. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
A</p><div class="im">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 7:56 AM, David Fulford <<a href="mailto:davidf@kingdombio.com" target="_blank">davidf@kingdombio.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Alex and Listers,<br>
<br>
The best independent papers on the ARTI system are by EAWAG (<a href="http://www.eawag.ch/organisation/abteilungen/sandec/publikationen/publications_swm/index_EN#owm" target="_blank">www.eawag.ch/organisation/abteilungen/sandec/publikationen/publications_swm/</a>)
who have also looked at the digestion of food residues from markets in Kerala,
South India. While food residues have an average TS of 50% or less, Dr Karve
bases his results on starch residues (e.g. flour dropped on the floor from
milling). Suich residues have a TS of almost 100%. This means that we need to
consider his gas production results as per kg total solids, rather than per kg
of wet material.<br>
<br>
As the assessor from Ashden Awards who visited ARTI in 2006 (see <a href="http://www.ashdenawards.org/winners/arti06" target="_blank">www.ashdenawards.org/winners/arti06</a>),
I had to evaluate Dr Karve's statements.and his technology. The biogas plant
uses simple cylindrical drums, so there is nothing special about the design.
The major difference is the use of food residues rather than dung as the feed
material. Since an animal has used as much of the input energy in the food as
it can before it evacuates the rest, the gas production from undigested food is
likely to be much higher than that from dung. Processed food (flour, sugar and
cooked food) is likely to have a higher gas output than raw food, as much more
of the material is accessible to the microbes. There are several other biogas
projects in India using food residues as feed material, that started at about
the same time as the ARTI one. I have visited the first Biotech Ltd project in
Kerala (<a href="http://www.ashdenawards.org/winners/biotech" target="_blank">www.ashdenawards.org/winners/biotech</a>)
about which the EAWAG report was written and another in Mumbai called the
Nisargruna system developed by BARC (see <a href="http://www.green-ensys.org/site/Biogas_Plant.html" target="_blank">www.green-ensys.org/site/Biogas_Plant.html</a>),
which uses a two-stage digestor design.<br>
<br>
Looking at the basic thermodynamics of the process, it seems quite feasible to
generate 1 kWh of electrical energy from 1 kg of starch, as Dr Karve suggests,
although it does suggest a very high efficiency for the conversion of starch to
biogas. However, in practice, a 1 cu.m ARTI biogas plant is too small to run an
ic engine, as small ic engines are not very efficient.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
David Fulford </p>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Alexander Eaton<br>Sistema Biobolsa<br>IRRI-Mexico<br><br>Mex cel: (55) 11522786<br>US cel: 970 275 4505<br><br><a href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br>
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