Hi Brent, <br><br>I understand that it is effective to use lime water to filter CO2, but in theory you are talking about a relatively large amount of lime water that must be replaced constantly, causing the issues surrounding lime water management. Can you elaborate quantities and chemical balance of this process? If the goal is just to slightly reduce the CO2 content, then that can been done in a few different ways. How much CO2 are you removing from the biogas, and under water lime water usage (eg, at water/lime concentrations etc.). <br>
<br>I am afraid I am a bit lost regarding the shaft compression method you are discussing here. In what situation would one have a large shaft available? How are you mixing the gas and liquid with no energy? How are you then separating them effectively? Is this something that you are using commonly? I am having trouble understanding how this is all being fed into a pipe, with no gas leaks, and then the gas is being forced downward, somehow in sustained suspension in the liquid. How is this "feeding" with no energy? What liquid are you using? How do you have two power sources? Are you somehow capturing the kinetic energy of the liquid in a turbine? More information please! <br>
<br>Regarding the H2S, we use simple metal filters that use iron sponge, waste metal, or cheap nails. These have to be changed a few times per year, but effectively manage H2S downstream of the reactor. I am unsure of how you would deal with that situation if there are metal components in your reactor, like a floating drum. <br>
<br>Saludos,<br><br>A <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:59 AM, bingham <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bingham@zekes.com">bingham@zekes.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">We have found that many smaller plants use a
floating dome to hold the gas. It is fairly</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">effective to use lime water as the liquid under
the dome and bubble the gas through it.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">Much of the CO2 is removed and takes up less
volume in the dome.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">Our primary concern is H2S. It deteriorates the
steel containers many have used and </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">posses a safety hazard.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">You can compress almost any gas
or liquid with almost no energy input if you have a deep shaft</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">or a small mountain. Mix the gas and liquid
together and feed it into a very strong pipe that </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">in unaffected by H2S. When the mixture is at the
bottom of the pipe the pressure is approximately</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">one PSI for every two feet it has traveled down
the pipe. At the bottom separate the liquid from the</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">gas and you have
two power sources. We use this method to compress gas
</font><font face="Corbel" size="2">for gas turbine generators.
</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">One of the weaknesses of gas turbines is the
necessity to compress the fuel.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">The compressors rob power from the turbine
lowering power output. </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">Location is the key, not everyone lives next to a
mountain or a deep cave, but the gas or pressurized </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">liquid can be piped long distances because it is
pressurized for almost nothing. You can use this</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">method to replace steam in stationary steam
generators or hydraulic motors. You are only limited</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">by your imagination: your choice of the gas and
liquid.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">Brent</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div class="im">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b>From:</b>
<a title="alex@sistemabiobolsa.com" href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">Alexander Eaton</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">For Discussion of Anaerobic
Digestion</a> </div>
</div><div class="im"><div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:58
AM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Digestion] Compressing of
biogas</div>
<div><br></div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">We go around this issue frequently, as end users often come up
with the same idea. It is hard to tell them no, so we always take a
fresh look under the circumstances. At the end of the day filtration of
CO2 i always ruled out, and that means 40% of the volume of gas you are
compressing serves no energetic purpose. Add that to the fact that
methane does not like to be compressed, and we arrive again at a "no"
response. <br><br>The one option we always examine is the non-compressed
transportation of large gas reservoirs. This we have tried for distances
that are too long for a simple gas line, and short enough to be practical by
cart. Since we can make durable gas reservoirs of any size and shape,
this is not unfeasible. Once transported, the gas is connected and used
as usual, while a second reservoir is filling. If you can create value
for this use, and the transport logistics to not out-weight the value of the
energy provided, you may have an option for success. Others have used
large truck inner-tubes in the same way, that are then rolled down the street
to the end use. I suspect that in certain locations, systems that
considered low-pressure distribution could gain some traction.
<br><br>Saludos,<br><br>A <br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Vianney Tumwesige
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trustvianney@gmail.com" target="_blank">trustvianney@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Hello Harold,<br><br>I completely agree withYvonne, it
will be economically expensive to compress the gas.<br><br>P.S. Yvonne,
could you send me a copy of the paper and ppt as well? <br><br>Best
regards<br><br>
<div style="display: inline;"></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div></div>
<div>On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Harold leffertstra <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:haroldleffertstra@yahoo.no" target="_blank">haroldleffertstra@yahoo.no</a>></span>
wrote:<br></div></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
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<tr>
<td valign="top">
<div>
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<div>hello</div>
<div>Got a question from the owner of a small biogass plant in
Tanzania.</div>
<div>He is expanding a small existing biogas plant to be able
to digest waste from 200 households and manure from 100
cows. </div>
<div>He is interested in using the biogas for fueling
vehicles. In our part of the world we think it will be
necessary with cleaning, uppgrading of the gas and
compressing.</div>
<div>Do any of you have experience/ideas about whether this is
feasible for such a small plant?</div>
<div>1)What is necessary to use the biogas for fueling
vehicles and 2) what are the technical and economical
consequences?</div>
<div>Thank you</div>
<div>Harold Leffertstra</div>
<div>Senior Advisor</div>
<div>Norwegian Climate and Pollution Agency</div>
<div>Oslo </div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br><br></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Digestion
mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or
Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>for
more information about digestion, see<br>Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br><a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>and the Biogas
Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Vianney Tumwesige<br>
<div style="display: inline;"></div>
<div style="display: inline;"></div>Director - Green Heat (U) Ltd <img src="" alt="Picture" height="20" width="20"><br>P.O. Box
10235<br>Kampala-Uganda<br>256 (0) 71 237 9889<br>
<div style="display: inline;"></div><br>"The more people are self sufficient
in cooking fuel, the more personal and financial freedom they have." - Emma
Casson<br>
<div style="display: inline;"></div><br><a href="http://trustvianney.wordpress.com/" target="_blank"><br></a>
<div style="display: inline;"></div>
<div style="display: inline;"></div><br></font><br>_______________________________________________<br>Digestion
mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to
UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>for
more information about digestion, see<br>Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br><a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>and the Biogas Wiki
<a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Alexander Eaton<br>Sistema
Biobolsa<br>IRRI-Mexico<br>RedBioLAC<br><br>Mex cel: (55) 11522786<br>US cel:
970 275 4505<br><br><a href="mailto:alex@irrimexico.org" target="_blank">alex@irrimexico.org</a><br><a href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br><br><a href="http://sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.irrimexico.org" target="_blank">www.irrimexico.org</a><br><a href="http://www.redbiolac.org" target="_blank">www.redbiolac.org</a><br><br>
</div></div><p>
</p><hr><div class="im">
<p></p>_______________________________________________<br>Digestion mailing
list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your
List Settings use the web
page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for
more information about digestion, see<br>Beginner's Guide to
Biogas<br><a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>and the Biogas Wiki
<a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br><br></div></blockquote></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Digestion mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Alexander Eaton<br>Sistema Biobolsa<br>IRRI-Mexico<br>RedBioLAC<br><br>Mex cel: (55) 11522786<br>US cel: 970 275 4505<br><br><a href="mailto:alex@irrimexico.org" target="_blank">alex@irrimexico.org</a><br>
<a href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br><br><a href="http://sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br><a href="http://www.irrimexico.org" target="_blank">www.irrimexico.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.redbiolac.org" target="_blank">www.redbiolac.org</a><br><br>