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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>G’day All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think we need a new thread so I can easily see anyone who
responds to my original post, which has certainly set off some discussion here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There is a translation of “The Beginners Guide to Biogas”
on the biogas wiki that I had a multilingual person look at and he thought the quality
was good (except for one more technical area that I can’t remember just
now).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I guess one approach is for individuals to use website
translators to look at the archives to get an idea of what is going on, so that
it then becomes their task/responsibility to chase up bits that don’t
translate (hopefully interesting bits, and possibly translation problems, would
be transferred across). This raises the question about differences between
translation tools? I, like David, am monolingual so my test would be to start
with something in English, translate to Spanish (or whatever) then translate
back again to see how it compared to the original using the various translation
options (I guess I can try it on “The Beginners Guide” above!).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Happy digesting,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>HOOROO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of
Sciences, The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA
5064 Ph : +61 8 8303 7880
Fax : +61 8 8303 4386 <a
href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au"><span style='color:blue'>mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</span></a>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris"><span
style='color:blue'>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;
color:#1F497D'>This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and
contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you
are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and
immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by
anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No
representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses.
Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 1 December 2010 9:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Digestion] Biogas Groups<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
There is as well, the point on which both of you agree, which is that automated
translation is inadequate to the task. Artificial intelligence is actually very
little like the real thing.<br>
<br>
But consider: translation done by a human would be prohibitively expensive, and
thus without the poor shadow that could be provided by automated translation,
these lists we are discussing (thanks to the spark provided by Paul) would
remain islands, largely isolated excepting to the few (I speak as someone born
in the US) who speak more than one language with sufficient fluency that they
can partake in the original ("foreign") language.<br>
<br>
Whereas, if automation is used, at least some portion of the discussion can be
transmitted more widely. This would, I think, be novel and of wider interest--
perhaps even somewhat pioneering, or visionary, a glimpse into a future unified
world. Further, if, for example, those joining the discussion in Spanish knew
their words were being translated and seen by a wider audience, it might
encourage not only more, but more earnest and thoughtful participation. (Based
on what you say, the Germans need no such catalyst!) There could as well be
other advantages.<br>
<br>
Some of the issues you mention above could be addressed (although perhaps
awkwardly) if the translation were two-way. <br>
<br>
As far as agreement from the participants to have their words translated, that
could be resolved when they signed up by asking them not to agree, but to
disagree, to actively say they did not want to be translated. If an existing
list were "converted" to translation, the issue could be handled
similarly: open the discussion, and if it were a comfortable thought for
"enough" of the participants, allow opting out, rather than seeking
active agreement. <br>
<br>
The core difficulty would be the expense of setting something up a list or
software system which could accommodate the implied options: tracking and not
translating those who had opted out, handling individual-to-individual
translated responses, and of course selecting and integrating an automated--
free!-- translation service (Babelfish/Yahoo? Translate.Google?). No doubt my
list of problems is anemic, but the point remains that there would be
challenges.<br>
<br>
Alex indicates that some funds are available, but they may be inadequate to the
task, excepting if further sponsorship could be found. Could one gain interest
from one of the services that do automated translation? It might be newsworthy
and therefore of some value to them for the PR...<br>
<br>
Mind you, I have no idea whether the litany of problems might be addressed and
overcome, but I thought an alternative look at the issue might be of interest.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
d.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.0pt'>David William House</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>"The
Complete Biogas Handbook" </span><code><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="www.completebiogas.com">www.completebiogas.com</a></span></code><span
style='font-size:9.5pt'><br>
<em>Vahid Biogas</em>, an alternative energy consultancy </span><code><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="www.vahidbiogas.com">www.vahidbiogas.com</a></span></code><span
style='font-size:9.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"Make no search for water. But
find thirst,<br>
And water from the very ground will burst." <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>(Rumi, a Persian mystic poet,
quoted in <em>Delight of Hearts</em>, p. 77) <br>
<br>
<a href="http://bahai.us/">http://bahai.us/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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