<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="metricconverter"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.E-postmall17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:595.3pt 841.9pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=SV link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What Mr Karve is
indicating is very important. Biogas can be a smart solution in many places but
one must always consider the local circumstances and everything around and not
just concentrate on the gas production. There has to be suitable raw materials
in sufficient quantities within reasonable distance, one must consider the cost
of collection and transport in monetary terms or working hours and the same for
distribution and eventual selling of the gas and the residues. There are also
environment effects to consider. Gasification by digestion has beneficial
effects but also some negative impacts. When it comes to the use of digestion
for treatment of waste there are also competing alternatives like direct
recycling, composting and burning. Dried dung is for instance a good fuel and
the ash still has the minerals (in another form) although the nitrogene and all
ligninous matters are lost. The question of safety for small dispersed quite
open plants in rural areas in warm countries is different from large plants in
densly populated areas in cold countries where parts of the process must take
place inside enclosed buildings. In the academical world and on the political
level one must always try to look at a bigger system and move the system boundries
much beyond the plant itself. For instance if you are an academic and just study
digestion as a means for making electricity you have to move the boundry out to
encompass the whole electric system and look at the electricity production and
especially it’s consumption of marginal fuel, but you must also look at
the smaller system that may be just the local farm and the farmers electricity
bill. Similar ways apply if you look at other uses of the gas and residues and
be very careful when you want to use data and experience from other places and
countries. They might only be partly relevant for the case you are working on. I
we just look at Europe north south east and west are different in many aspects.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Björn Dahlroth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sweden</span></font></st1:place></st1:country-region><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Från:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>För </span></b>Anand Karve<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Skicka</span></b></span></font><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>t:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> den 8 december 2010 01:58<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Till:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Ämne:</span></b> Re: [Digestion] The
relatively high cost of digesters.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dear Paul and stovers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I give here our experience in India about the rural dung based biogas
plants. India has about 140 million rural households and the
government has been making propaganda since 1950 for biogas
plants. By the latest count, we have today only about 3 million working
biogas plants. That is just 2% penetration of this technology. Due to
increased mechanisation, the number of draft animals is slowly dwindling,
as a result of which the total number of animals in the rural area is steadily
going down. It is only the dairy farmers and the owners of large poultries that
have large quantities of animal faeces to deal with. Due to lack of dung, many
biogas plants have stopped functioning. A dung based domestic biogas plant
needs a daily input of <st1:metricconverter ProductID="40 kg" w:st="on">40 kg</st1:metricconverter>
dung mixed with <st1:metricconverter ProductID="40 litres" w:st="on">40 litres</st1:metricconverter>
water (to make it into a pourable slurry). In villages the women often
have to fetch the water from a distant source, carrying it on their heads.
They have to bring about 25 to <st1:metricconverter ProductID="30 litres"
w:st="on">30 litres</st1:metricconverter> water every day as the drinking and
cooking water for the household. This quantity increases, if they have
cattle. Bringing additional <st1:metricconverter ProductID="40 litres" w:st="on">40
litres</st1:metricconverter> for the biogas plant is an added
burden. So,although the housewife is told that her life would be easier if
the household gets a biogas plant, in actuality, this technology increases
her workload. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Yours<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>A.D.Karve <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Paul Harris <<a
href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>G'day All,<br>
<br>
One reason for the "high" cost of digesters is that
"Westerners" seem to<br>
have a preoccupation with complexity and large, centralised facilities -<br>
which "we" expect to inflict on the rest of the world.<br>
<br>
The small, simple, decentralised systems used extensively in China, India<br>
and more recently Columbia, Vietnam, Cambodia and Bolivia and reported by<br>
some members of this discussion group are making a big improvement to the<br>
environment by providing convenient, clean fuel without deforestation or<br>
fossil fuel depletion. They may not win on "biogas per unit digester
volume"<br>
or "throughput per day" and will not make corporate profits but they
do lift<br>
people from poverty, ease the grind of daily life and may well get more<br>
biogas per unit of VS/COD, compared to "our" large units.<br>
<br>
I agree you get what you pay for and there are bound to be improvements that<br>
may need to be done, but it's also "horses for courses".<br>
<br>
Happy digesting,<br>
HOOROO<br>
<br>
Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of Sciences, The <br>
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064
Ph : +61<br>
8 8303 7880 Fax :
+61 8 8303 4386<br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a> <br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a><br>
<br>
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<br>
This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No<br>
representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of<br>
viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<br>
recipient.<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Edgar<br>
Blanco-Madrigal<br>
Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2010 10:51 PM<br>
To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion</st1:PersonName><br>
Cc: digestion<br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] The relatively high cost of digesters.<br>
<br>
In AD the universal principle applies:<br>
"You get what you pay for"<br>
<br>
You can build a cheap digester, and produce gas, etc. But you should not<br>
pretend this in any way will be helping the environment, because to do that<br>
money has to be committed in the whole operation.<br>
<br>
SNIP<br>
<br>
Please, do not peddle technology on the basis of its low cost, do it on the<br>
basis of quality!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Digestion mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
<br>
*Please change my email address in your records to: <a
href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a> *<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>