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<br>No need to be offended. Let's think about triaging energy supply. Energy for farming and food, no problem. Energy for doing dumb things, why not think twice or pay more? Energy gluttony is not connected to efficient food production.<br><br>Take gluteus energy demand, for example. Those gluteus should be getting off the couch!<br><br><br><br><br><hr id="stopSpelling">From: bingham@zekes.com<br>To: digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:48:02 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates<br><br>
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<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">I find the tone of this thread to be ever
increasingly offensive!</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">I believe the "Industrialized world "provides 90+
% of all aid that goes to feed and help the rest of the world in </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">normal times and in disasters? </font><font face="Corbel" size="2">If they did not have the energy and use it, they would consume more
food </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">than they produce. </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">I believe there is a </font><font face="Corbel" size="2">law of "unintended consequences". It appears our family will be paid
more for our corn </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">and hay this year than </font><font face="Corbel" size="2">any other time in the 150 years our family has farmed. Not because
of a need for food</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">but due to poorly conceived notion the ETOH is
better than crude oil. As food and feed prices ultimately go up </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">when corn is converted to fuel, </font><font face="Corbel" size="2">what of the people who must pay for what was already to
expensive to them?</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">If every person and business in the
"Industrialized world" cut there energy consumption over night, the world
would</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">begin to starve in 120 days or less. Ship loads of
food aid would stop immediately. Almost no trucks or trains would </font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">deliver food. Fuel delivery would begin to stop.
Tire production would be curtailed. The list would go on and on.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">Those energy gluttons are the most efficient food
producers in the world. With out them most of the world would
starve.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">In the late 1970's Carter in the US felt the
same was as this thread is running. He contrived an energy shortage and
fuel</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">for the farm was rationed. Food costs went up and
production went down.</font></div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2">There are some that feel rising energy costs will
stop or slow the "<font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Glutenous Energy Demand".
What it will</font></font></div>
<div>do is hurt those among us that can least afford it. It would be nice if
those of you who feel inclined to </div>
<div>inject there social/Political view into Anaerobic Digestion would just keep
them to them selves. </div>
<div>It may be that "Peak Oil occurred in 2006",But Coal consumption just
increased and took its place.</div>
<div>There is enough Coal and Natural gas to last 200 years in the US and
probably that much oil.</div>
<div>Oil production is controlled more by politics and price not by
availability. Most of the oil in the </div>
<div>US is untapped due to Politics and so called Environmentalism. </div>
<div><font face="Corbel" size="2"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font: 10pt arial;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial; background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% rgb(228, 228, 228);"><b>From:</b>
<a title="9watts@gmail.com" href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com">Reuben Deumling</a>
</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a title="digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">For Discussion of Anaerobic
Digestion</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="LLC.Franssen@alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl" href="mailto:LLC.Franssen@alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl">Franssen, Loe
(Alumni)</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 17, 2011 3:28
PM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Digestion] Biogas
conversation rates</div>
<div><br></div><br><br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Alexander Eaton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class="ecxgmail_quote">Reuben, are you suggesting that we (in the industrialized
world) all suffer from "unsuppressed energy demand"? Untrammeled
Energy Demand? Maybe even Glutenous Energy Demand? Very
interesting ;)<br></blockquote>
<div>Both. I've met many folks allergic to all sorts of compounds found in
wheat, but gluttonous is surely the most apt phrase. We may not *all* suffer
from this condition, but it is surely the norm. Over on the 90percentreduction
yahoo group we talk about this regularly. <br></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class="ecxgmail_quote"><br>We do see people adding energy uses when they have
more energy, e.g. biogas. This would through a hitch in the carbon
calcs, except for the fact that the methodology allows you to assume that
they would have eventually found a way to provide that energy, and it would
have come from a fossil fuel. <br></blockquote>
<div>well this is familiar empty-world-economics (TM Herman Daly). Full world
economics suggests this is no longer a reasonable assumption. With the
International Energy Agency now admitting that Peak Oil occurred in 2006, this
is now all (thankfully) in the past. <br><br>IEA's admission as
paraphrased by the folks who predicted this four+ years ago:<br><a href="http://www.energywatchgroup.org/Mitteilungen.26+M5d637b1e38d.0.html" target="_blank">http://www.energywatchgroup.org/Mitteilungen.26+M5d637b1e38d.0.html</a><br>
<b>Press Release from 11. November 2010:</b><br><b>"<span lang="EN-US">International Energy Agency confirms the EWG's
Warning"</span></b><BR>International Energy Agency Confirms<br>the Energy
Watch Group's Warning<br>• "<span class="ecxil">Peak</span> <span class="ecxil">Oil</span>" through conventional production was reached in 2006<br>•
<span class="ecxil">IEA</span>'s assumptions about future total production
unrealistic<br>• Accelerated expansion of renewables will safeguard supply
more<br>economically<br>As early as three years ago, the Energy Watch Group
(EWG) identified<br>the highpoint of conventional worldwide <span class="ecxil">oil</span> exploitation as having been<br>reached in 2006. With its
"World Energy Outlook 2010", the International<br>Energy Agency (<span class="ecxil">IEA</span>) expressly endorsed this conclusion for the very
first<br>time, corroborating that the production of crude <span class="ecxil">oil</span> will never again<br>achieve the 2006 level. The Agency,
made up of 28 OECD countries,<br>represents the governmental interests of the
largest "Western" energyconsuming<br>nations.<br>In a comprehensive 2007
study, the Energy Watch Group's scientists<br>explained why "after attaining
this maximum production, there is a very<br>high probability that in the
coming twenty years – by 2030 – annual<br>output of crude <span class="ecxil">oil</span> will halve." In each of the past few years, the <span class="ecxil">IEA</span> has<br>revised its annual forecast of worldwide <span class="ecxil">oil</span> production downward,<br>converging toward the Energy Watch
Group's analysis.<br><b>Unlike the Energy Watch Group, however, the <span class="ecxil">IEA</span> continues to espouse<br>expectations that are far too
optimistic in regard to the expansion of <span class="ecxil">oil</span><br>production from conventional and unconventional
sources.</b> Thomas<br>Seltmann, the EWG's project manager, explains,
"Leading<br>representatives of the <span class="ecxil">IEA</span> regularly declare
that 'several new Saudi<br>Arabias' would need to be tapped only in order to
maintain current output<br>levels. This would also be a condition for their
current scenario, but these<br>oilfields simply don't exist. You can only
produce <span class="ecxil">oil</span> that you can find."<br>Moreover, the<b>
<span class="ecxil">IEA</span> continues to make unrealistic assumptions about
the<br>potential output from so-called "unconventional" wells: natural
gas<br>condensates and tar sands – two putative substitutes for crude <span class="ecxil">oil</span>.</b><br>Production of the latter is very complicated and
detrimental to the<br>environment, and the availability of both is much lower.
"Bringing them<br>online is absolutely not comparable with the familiar <span class="ecxil">oil</span> production on<br>land and in the sea", Seltmann qualifies.
Nonetheless, the <span class="ecxil">IEA</span> still<br>suggests that the <span class="ecxil">oil</span> supply can be raised to meet demand.<br>The unjustified
optimism about <span class="ecxil">oil</span> is paralleled by an equally
unfounded<br>pessimism vis-à-vis the expansion of renewable energies, and
the<br>expansion rate outlined by the <span class="ecxil">IEA</span> is well below
the current growth rates<br>for renewables. Seltmann says, "We urgently
recommend that<br>governments ambitiously accelerate the expansion of
renewable energy<br>in order to counter the foreseeable shortages and price
jumps of fossil<br>fuels. More rapid expansion of renewable energy is more
economical<br>overall than a slower approach. Even completely meeting our
energy<br>needs with renewables is possible within a few decades and
more<br>economical in total than the further consumption of <span class="ecxil">oil</span>, natural gas, coal,<br>and uranium."<br>Press
contact:<br>Thomas Seltmann, project manager<br><a href="mailto:seltmann@energywatchgroup.org">seltmann@energywatchgroup.org</a><br>Download of the study and
updated graphic related to the EWG <span class="ecxil">oil</span> study:<br><a href="http://www.energywatchgroup.org/Crude-Oil.56+M5d637b1e38d.0.html" target="_blank">http://www.energywatchgroup.org/Crude-<span class="ecxil">Oil</span>.56+M5d637b1e38d.0.html</a><br>(<a href="http://www.energywatchgroup.org/" target="_blank">www.energywatchgroup.org</a> à Themes à Crude <span class="ecxil">Oil</span>)<br></div><br></div>
<BR><hr>
<BR>_______________________________________________<br>Digestion mailing
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page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>for
more information about digestion, see<br>Beginner's Guide to
Biogas<br>http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/<br>and the Biogas Wiki
http://biogas.wikispaces.com/<br><br></blockquote>
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