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<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>Steve,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>You are correct in your observation "This makes the
numbers pretty outdated". The US started changing its policies 2004
when</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>we democrats took over more of the legislative process.
The numbers started changing significantly. The Petroleum Institute has some
very</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>different numbers for the same time period covered by
Pimentel & Pimentel's book. It seems Pimentel & Pimentel's book makes
some </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>assumptions that do not support the facts. Also they do
not agree on what is a tax detectable cost. Pimentel & Pimentel's book
lists</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>as subsidies items the Petroleum Industry lists a tax
deductible expenses. I really do not wish to defend IRS tax regulations as to
which are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>legitimate deductions for cost of which are
"subsidies".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel>B</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Corbel></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verheys@hotmail.com href="mailto:verheys@hotmail.com">Steve
Verhey</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Digestion] Biogas
conversation rates</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>Regarding subsidies in the US: here is information from
Table 22.3 in Pimentel & Pimentel's book Food, Energy, and Society, 3rd
edition:<BR><BR>energy source/subsidy (in billion
$)<BR><BR>Oil/11.9<BR>Nuclear/11.0<BR>Coal/8.0<BR>Natural gas/4.3<BR>Energy
efficiency/1.2<BR>Ethanol/ >1.0<BR><BR>The oil and ethanol subsidy data are
from 2001 sources; other industry data are from 1993. This makes the numbers
pretty outdated, but I think the point is clear: oil companies get plenty of
help to harvest "free in the ground" oil. It follows that the price of
petroleum energy is artificially low (the "natural" price would be the cost of
goods sold + distribution + profit margin). I don't think these numbers
include the cost to taxpayers of maintaining the kind of military necessary to
defend oil sources and shipping routes.<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:15:28 -0800<BR>From: 9watts@gmail.com<BR>To:
digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas
conversation rates<BR><BR>
<DIV class=ecxgmail_quote>On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:04 PM, bingham <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:bingham@zekes.com">bingham@zekes.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=ecxgmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV>subsidized grains....under cut the production of corn ???? I would like
to see the evidence of a subsidized grain effecting the production of corn
in a third world setting. Most third world farmers, only cost, is the seed.
Rain is free and the grass is free, to feed there beasts of burden is free.
They do not use energy.</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>Your logic is a bit tricky to follow, but here's something to ponder
in relation to your notion that agriculture in the third world is (nearly)
free and does not use energy.<BR><BR>-----Forwarded Message----- <BR>From:
Earth Policy Release <BR>Sent: Jan 14, 2011 2:00 AM <BR>To: <A
href="mailto:mcat@teleport.com">mcat@teleport.com</A> <BR>Subject: Earth
Policy Release -- The Great Food Crisis of 2011 <BR><BR>
<TABLE border=0 width=630 align=center>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=4>
<DIV align=center><A href="http://www.earth-policy.org/"
target=_blank><IMG border=0 alt="Earth Policy Institute"
src="http://www.earth-policy.org/images/interface/EPI_logo_top.gif"
width=274 longDesc="http://www.earth-policy.org"
height=110></A></DIV></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=3>
<DIV align=left><B><FONT size=3 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">THE
GREAT FOOD CRISIS OF 2011* <BR></FONT></B><FONT size=2
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">By Lester R. Brown </FONT><BR><FONT
size=-2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2011/update90"
target=_blank><FONT
size=2>www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2011/update90</FONT></A></FONT><FONT
size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><BR><BR></FONT></DIV></TD>
<TD>
<DIV align=right><FONT size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Earth
Policy Release <BR>Plan B Update
<BR>January 14,
2011 <BR></FONT><B><FONT size=3
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><BR></FONT></B><BR></DIV></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=4>
<DIV align=justified><FONT size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">As
the new year begins, the price of wheat is setting an all-time high in
the United Kingdom. Food riots are spreading across Algeria. Russia is
importing grain to sustain its cattle herds until spring grazing begins.
India is wrestling with an 18-percent annual food inflation rate,
sparking protests. China is looking abroad for potentially massive
quantities of wheat and corn. The Mexican government is buying corn
futures to avoid unmanageable tortilla price rises. And on January 5,
the U.N. Food and Agricultural organization announced that its food
price index for December hit an all-time high.<BR><BR>But whereas in
years past, it's been weather that has caused a spike in commodities
prices, now it's trends on both sides of the food supply/demand equation
that are driving up prices. On the demand side, the culprits are
population growth, rising affluence, and the use of grain to fuel cars.
On the supply side: soil erosion, aquifer depletion, the loss of
cropland to nonfarm uses, the diversion of irrigation water to cities,
the plateauing of crop yields in agriculturally advanced countries,
and—due to climate change —crop-withering heat waves and melting
mountain glaciers and ice sheets. These climate-related trends seem
destined to take a far greater toll in the
future.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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