It is unclear to me how peak oil, and the ramifications it has to our industry, could be offensive to anyone or considered outside the scope oft his list. We are discussing Anaerobic Digestions and the AD industry, which is currently undermined by artificially cheap fossil fuel production and use (not a political statement). It is also hard for me to see how the juxtaposition of people in the developing world having suppressed energy needs with wasteful use of non-renewable energy in the industrialized world should be offensive, or even off topic. In fact, biogas would be a more feasible option in the industrialized world if its modest energy production were paired with a more modest energy use. This is not a political view, but a holistic view of how energy programs should be implemented. Those of us who work in renewable energy should always examine opportunities for efficiency as part of our projects to make the energy production more significant. <br>
<br>The only political view I see here is referring to industrialized agricultural as the most efficient in the world (you do not mean energy in to food calories out as your measure of efficiency?). Or, that exporting massive amounts of subsidized grains has been some boon for the developing world. Many in Mexico would find this offensive since these exports have under cut the production of corn in the country where that grain was developed. That was a political statement, that many would disagree with.<br>
<br>AD is an incredible renewable energy source, but one that should teach us to value energy and inherently become champions of energy efficiency and conservation. Obviously, that does not mean pulling the plug on key industries or agriculture, but as the original theme of this thread indicates, there is a massive imbalance of energy use int he world (also not a political statement) that could be partially improved by restrain and responsible energy use in the industrialized world...and then the application of AD for all! <br>
<br>A <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:53 PM, Reuben Deumling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com">9watts@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Randy Mott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:randymott@ceeres.eu" target="_blank">randymott@ceeres.eu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">If this list starts becoming a place to expound political theories about the world and energy, I will drop out.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div>Peak Oil is a political theory? Hm. <br>30 countries that produce oil have already peaked, and ten more are close (out of a total of 54 countries)--I don't think this is debated by anyone--see <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5576" target="_blank">http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5576</a><br>
</div><div class="im"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">My general feeling is when a renewable energy person begins their presentation with global warming and political slides, that they are not really a professional in the business. </span></p>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div>I'm not sure who you have in mind, but I am not a renewable energy person. I'm a citizen who would like to learn about how we can all live well a decade or two or three hence--even more would be welcome. My interest in biogas stems from the fact that the other, more familiar, stuff isn't going to be around or affordable forever, and liquid or gaseous fuels have some key advantages in certain applications.<br>
</div><div class="im"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We will be selling carbon credits like anyone seriously in the biogas business, but I don’t need this list to tell me that by doing so we are helping to save the world, etc.</span></p>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div>No need to worry. Our world will not be saved by carbon credits. I don't know who was suggesting that, but it certainly wasn't me. <br><br>Reuben Deumling<br></div><br></div>
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