Hi Alex<div><br></div><div>There's a lot to respond to here - but I suspect a lot of it is nonsense. </div><div><br></div><div>It's true that biogas production removes carbon that could enrich the soil. However, many (most?) AD feedstocks are unsuitable for direct applcn to the soil (for a range of reasons), whereas the digestate is beneficial. So without AD, there could be no enrichment of the soil. With AD, there is substantial enrichment, even if less than some theoretical (but unattainable) maximum. </div>
<div><br></div><div>In the case of a feedstock that can be applied directly, of course, that should be considered. Animals have been 'manuring' the soil since the dawn of time, after all.......</div><div><br></div>
<div><i>Clostridium spp</i> would not be unusual in AD. I have no idea whether the botulinum toxin is produced in AD. However, I would be surprised if it is stable once applied to the soil - and a 'rest' period should always be allowed after spreading digestate. How long depends on the soil and the crop - longer for salads than for root vegetables or cereals for example.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So any problems of sick cattle might well be caused by poor management: i.e. allowing grazing too soon after application. There is nothing unusual about applying digestate to fodder fields: it has been done for almost 100 years and I have never heard of this problem before.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I don't understand German, so I can't comment on the video clip - but I wonder if this issue mainly relates to grass-fed AD. This is quite common in some German-speaking countries, encouraged by generous prices for electricity from biogas. I wonder if farmers under financial pressure have been tempted to cut corners?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Duncan Martin PhD</div><div>Cloughjordan Ecovillage</div><div>Ireland</div><div><a href="http://www.thevillage.ie">www.thevillage.ie</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div>
<div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 13 February 2011 23:37, Alexander Eaton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Hi All, <br><br>I have received this from a few people now...it is clearly circulating widely. I have plenty of comments regarding the soil aspects, and certainly some of the AD sludge contents from industrial or black water plants is a bit beyond my expertise, but I would certainly appreciate some comments from this group, especially any Germans that can comment on the YouTube part. This guy clearly is now against biogas, and it would make sense to have some good responses to this type of thing. <br>
<br>Best<br><br><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">Dear Kamal,</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">Dear All,</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em">
</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">Besides the clear and proven advantages of biogas there are at least two extremely severe problems:</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em">
</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">Organic
matter that is converted into gas is no longer availabel to produce
humus, so there are reports from farmers that the soil is getting less
and less producticve. Rich soil may be far more important that the
relatively litte amount of gas. Composting expecially with earthworms
and additon of some charcoal dust (can easily be made from straw, rice
husks instead of the terrible burning) ideally plus stone dust can be
far more beneficial with rising productivity for food and more biomass
and is simple, too. At TUHH we are now working intensely of also
composting urine and mixed excreta stabilised by lactofermenters
together with woody wastes to make more soil as I want to work with
ecolocical agriculture and not do industrial agriculture with addion of
fast fertiliser. Biogas can be a threat for long term food security and
you will have to pay for the gas with more and more fertiliser demand,
less water reproduction, flooding through compacting soils.</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em">
</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">In Germany (see</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"> </span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><font style="line-height:1.22em" face="Arial"> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cNyyU3zcXY" style="color:rgb(30, 102, 174);line-height:1.22em;font-family:Verdana" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cNyyU3zcXY</a> sorry in German) </font></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">(and
probably elsewhere) there are dramatic problems with the masses of
heavily subsidised biogas plants for food to energy producion where</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"> </span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><i style="line-height:1.22em"><b style="line-height:1.22em">Clostridium botulinum </b></i></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">is
growing rapidly under anaerobic conditions producing the highly toxic
substance, there are hundreds of farms where all milk cows are dying and
the farmers are ruined, even they became ill sometimes. The reason are
fodder fields that are fertilised with the sludge from the biogas
plants. The very dangerouos botulinum toxin (misused by people who hate
aging by paralysing nerves in the face thus turning it into a mask, then
called botox) is only showing effect after many month so the effect is
often not related to the cause.</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em">
</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">I
used to be very positive towards biogas and have planned and built
them, I will not do this anymore except for some industrial wastewaters.
Maybe also for sanitation in areas where the soils are super humus rich
already and botulism can be avoided safely.</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em">
</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">Kind regards</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em">
</span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px"><br style="line-height:1.22em"></span><span style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:16px;line-height:19px">Ralf</span><br><br>For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Alexander Eaton<br>Sistema Biobolsa<br>IRRI-Mexico<br>
RedBioLAC<br><br>Mex cel: (55) 11522786<br>US cel: 970 275 4505<br><br><a href="mailto:alex@irrimexico.org" target="_blank">alex@irrimexico.org</a><br><a href="mailto:alex@sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">alex@sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br>
<br><a href="http://sistemabiobolsa.com" target="_blank">sistemabiobolsa.com</a><br><a href="http://www.irrimexico.org" target="_blank">www.irrimexico.org</a><br><a href="http://www.redbiolac.org" target="_blank">www.redbiolac.org</a><br>
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