Digestate as Fertilizer<br><br>Per Gordon Gecko's comments (aka Randy Mott) what are the potential values of the separated factions of treated digestate? If this treatment is done on a large scale how are each of the 3 factions removed 'easily'? Just wondering about implementation.<br>
Thanks,<br>Christine McKiernan<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 3:00 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. FW: The Department of public works South Africa (Paul Harris)<br>
2. Re: Flares, Check Valves, Insulation Blankets (Paul Harris)<br>
3. Re: Fwd: The biology of biogas production (Paul Harris)<br>
4. FW: Ceram Kote (Paul Harris)<br>
5. Re: Digestate as fertilizer. (Peter Allison)<br>
6. Re: Environmentalists Anti-AD Issues (Alan Muller)<br>
7. Re: Digestate as fertilizer. (Randy Mott)<br>
8. Re: Environmentalists Anti-AD Issues (Randy Mott)<br>
9. Re: Fwd: The biology of biogas production (Anand Karve)<br>
10. Re: Digestate as fertilizer. (Douglas Renk)<br>
11. Re: Fwd: The biology of biogas production (Murali Krishna)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:56:20 +0930<br>
From: "Paul Harris" <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Digestion] FW: The Department of public works South Africa<br>
Message-ID: <002801cc35ea$ca200fe0$5e602fa0$@<a href="mailto:harris@adelaide.edu.au">harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
G'day All,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The message below may be of interest to some listers - apologies to those<br>
not interested and for cross posting.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Happy Digesting,<br>
<br>
HOOROO<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The<br>
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61<br>
8 8303 7880 Fax : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%204386" value="+61883034386">+61 8 8303 4386</a> mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a><br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<br>
<br>
This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
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recipient.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Kennedy Gumbi [mailto:<a href="mailto:kenjs722@gmail.com">kenjs722@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 12:30 AM<br>
To: Paul.harris<br>
Subject: The Department of public works South Africa<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The Department of public works South Africa<br>
<br>
EOI NO: SADC/LIMP/DPWSA/008/001<br>
<br>
EXPRESSION OF INTEREST<br>
<br>
Attn: The President/CEO<br>
<br>
Notice Inviting Tender<br>
<br>
The Department of public works in conjunction with the Southern African<br>
Development Community (SADC) is embarking on a multi-million rand project<br>
for the development of south African sub communities<br>
<br>
The project is in line with the Department of public works mandate of<br>
pioneering development in all sub communities of South Africa<br>
<br>
We require the following:<br>
<br>
Tenders are invited from bonafied experienced international contractors of<br>
sound financial standing and reputation and fulfilling the pre-qualification<br>
requirements for the following:<br>
<br>
I: Supply of dredgers<br>
<br>
II: Supply of hospital equipments<br>
<br>
III: Construction of 950 hundred units of houses in Extension 9, 10 and 11<br>
South Gauteng Province.<br>
<br>
IV: Technical Knowhow: Tenderers or consortia that have at least minimum of<br>
four years experience in biofuel and biodiesel production, ability to use<br>
co-generation facilities to provide electricity to the National Grid.<br>
<br>
Interested companies or contractors should consider the following:<br>
<br>
Ability for company executives to travel at short notice to South Africa for<br>
briefings and consultation should need arise.<br>
<br>
EOI duration is a period of two weeks from receipt of this notice.<br>
<br>
Tenderers or consortia that have the capacity for this kind of project<br>
should kindly respond immediately, after which further relevant Documents<br>
will be dispatched for filling and submission by tenderer.<br>
A compulsory briefing will be held in South Africa between the Executives of<br>
Department of public works South Africa and Executives of the finally short<br>
listed company NB:PLEASE REPLY THROUGH THIS EMAIL ADDRESS <a href="mailto:kenjs@bk.ru">kenjs@bk.ru</a><br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Kennedy Gumbi<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:59:41 +0930<br>
From: "Paul Harris" <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Flares, Check Valves, Insulation Blankets<br>
Message-ID: <00d101cc35fc$053371b0$0f9a5510$@<a href="mailto:harris@adelaide.edu.au">harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
G'day Steven,<br>
<br>
For a small system I suggest a "water trap" is the best check valve, as it<br>
also acts as a flame trap and a condensate collection point. For a couple of<br>
ideas go to <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/safety/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/safety/</a> where you can view<br>
sketches of Flametrap1 and Flametrap2.<br>
<br>
Happy Digesting,<br>
HOOROO<br>
<br>
Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The?<br>
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph??? : +61<br>
8 8303 7880????? Fax?? : +61?8?8303?4386<br>
mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>??<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a><br>
<br>
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<br>
This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
information that may be confidential and/or copyright.? If you are not the<br>
intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
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viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<br>
recipient.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Steven<br>
Bolgiano<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2011 7:07 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Subject: [Digestion] Flares, Check Valves, Insulation Blankets<br>
<br>
Hi Group,<br>
I thought I'd put a group of trivia questions, in one email.<br>
<br>
Gas Flare - In terms of a small digester, can anyone describe or point<br>
to plans for self-assembling a gas flare?<br>
I assume it would be a type of pressure valve with an activation for a<br>
battery operated igniter, so that if the gas collection bag became too<br>
full it would relieve pressure by burning off excess?<br>
And any comments or advice on flares in general, or how it might apply<br>
to a bladder tank style containment would be great.<br>
<br>
Check Valves - I assume a gas check valve would go between the gas<br>
containment and the generator engine, also between a utility like the<br>
above mentioned flare, .... where else in a small digester system<br>
should a check valve be located. I know with the solar water heating<br>
for tanks, we just completed ... in terms of a water valve, a "swing<br>
check valve" was required because our solar water heating is a closed<br>
loop with next to nothing in pressure to open a spring loaded valve.<br>
What are the various kinds of check valves for gas, and what is best for<br>
a small system?<br>
<br>
Insulation Blankets - I know quite a few list members are from outside<br>
the U.S. so they may not be able to help, but I'm looking for a UV<br>
resistant insulation blanket, black on top and reflective on bottom to<br>
cover bladder tanks in winter. These tanks actually have a low profile<br>
"greenhouse" shell over them, so the ambient greenhouse temps can be as<br>
high as 65C. The blanket would need to be 5 x 9 meters.<br>
Any suggestions for sources to buy?<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
Steven<br>
<br>
--<br>
Steven Bolgiano<br>
Executive Director<br>
Planet Foundation Ltd.<br>
<a href="mailto:steven@planetfound.com">steven@planetfound.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:443.235.1344" value="+14432351344">443.235.1344</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Digestion mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
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sts.org</a><br>
<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:14:39 +0930<br>
From: "Paul Harris" <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Fwd: The biology of biogas production<br>
Message-ID: <00fb01cc3606$7e81c800$7b855800$@<a href="mailto:harris@adelaide.edu.au">harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"<br>
<br>
G'day A.D. Karve et al,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This post from a while back prompted an interesting thought - if you are<br>
right we may be able to acclimate a digester to using just CO2 as the carbon<br>
source, so we could convert CO2 back to methane and solve both CO2 emissions<br>
and "peak oil".<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The quality ratio of CH4 to CO2 does vary a bit, sometimes being less than<br>
50% methane and sometimes claims of over 90% methane, but David Fulford has<br>
shown that sugar and starch give 50% methane so any improvement is due to<br>
some methanogens using CO2 produced earlier in the sequence and H+ from<br>
water and acids to make CH4 and H2O.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Happy digesting,<br>
<br>
HOOROO<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The<br>
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61<br>
8 8303 7880 Fax : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%204386" value="+61883034386">+61 8 8303 4386</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>> mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a><br>
<<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a>><br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<br>
<br>
This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<br>
intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No<br>
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viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<br>
recipient.<br>
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From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anand Karve<br>
Sent: Thursday, 2 June 2011 12:50 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
Subject: [Digestion] Fwd: The biology of biogas production<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: 2011/6/2<br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] The biology of biogas production<br>
To: Gasan Osojnik <<a href="mailto:gasan.osojnik@gmail.com">gasan.osojnik@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear List,<br>
<br>
Irrespective of the substrate, design of the system or the temperature of<br>
the reaction, the proportion of methane to carbon dioxide in the biogas<br>
seems to be constant all over the world. Is there an equilibrium between<br>
these two gases that keeps this proportion constant? Because in that case,<br>
one might introduce carbon dioxide from outside into the biogas plant and<br>
see if the organisms in the digester produce more methane to reach the<br>
euilibrium constant. I shall be grateful to get your reaction on this.<br>
<br>
Yours<br>
<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
2011/3/22 Gasan Osojnik <<a href="mailto:gasan.osojnik@gmail.com">gasan.osojnik@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
Hi Mohamed,<br>
<br>
The general (though I am sure there will be other interpretations) mechanism<br>
of biogas formation is 4-step and involves:<br>
1. Hydrolysis (degradation of polymers)<br>
2. Acidogenesis (the formation of volatile fatty acids - low molecular<br>
carboxylic acids)<br>
3. Acetogenesis (the formation of acetate, CO2 and H2)<br>
4. Methanogenesis (from acetete -> CO2 and CH4 is formed, from CO2 and H2 -><br>
CH4 is formed, methanogenesis from acetate and CO2+H2 has to run<br>
simultaneously for the proces to be stable)<br>
<br>
The last step is the reason why there will be always some CO2 in biogas.<br>
Each of this steps is carried out by different groups of microorganisms.<br>
<br>
So the initial biochemical sources of biogas are carbohydrates, proteins,<br>
fats etc. In the long run, any substance that can be converted<br>
intermediately either to dissolved CO2 and H2 or to acetate is appropriate<br>
for biogas production.<br>
<br>
BR from Slovenia, Gasan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ilja Gasan OSOJNIK ?RNIVEC, L05 - Laboratory for Environmental Sciences and<br>
Engineering<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
KI+letokemije.jpg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
National Institute of Chemistry<br>
<br>
Hajdrihova 19<br>
<br>
SI-1001 Ljubljana<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tel.: (01) 47 60 239<br>
<br>
(01) 47 60 200<br>
<br>
Fax: (01) 47 60 300<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:11:01 +0930<br>
From: "Paul Harris" <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Digestion] FW: Ceram Kote<br>
Message-ID: <010701cc360e$5e32a080$1a97e180$@<a href="mailto:harris@adelaide.edu.au">harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
G?day All,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please let me know (by private e-mail, rather than clogging the listserver!)<br>
<br>
if you find the items I am forwarding helpful (or annoying), as I don?t know<br>
<br>
how widely they get distributed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Happy digesting,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
HOOROO<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The<br>
<br>
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064<br>
<br>
Ph : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%207880" value="+61883037880">+61 8 8303 7880</a> Fax : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%204386" value="+61883034386">+61 8 8303 4386</a><br>
<br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
<br>
information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<br>
<br>
intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
<br>
delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
<br>
other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No<br>
<br>
representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of<br>
<br>
viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<br>
<br>
recipient.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: SWU [mailto:<a href="mailto:swu@ceram-kote.de">swu@ceram-kote.de</a>]<br>
<br>
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2011 7:04 PM<br>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:swu@ceram-kote.de">swu@ceram-kote.de</a><br>
<br>
Subject: Ceram Kote: International patented coating system against<br>
<br>
SRB-induced bio corrosion!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
NEWSLETTER s MAY 2011<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear customers and interested persons,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
due to our international patented coating products against SRB-induced bio<br>
<br>
corrosion, we would like to explain the complex mechanism of anaerobe bio<br>
<br>
corrosion in details.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Our discription should help you to understand how SRB-bacteria operate and<br>
<br>
induce pitting corrosion.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please find attached<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
* our interesting Newsletter May 2011 with the detailed<br>
explanation of<br>
<br>
SRB-induced bio corrosion and the effect of our patented coating systems<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
* our new Product-Matrix-Table (PMT) "Bio corrosion" with<br>
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You can get more information about our coating products and successful<br>
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Stephanie W?nsch<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
email: <a href="mailto:swu@ceram-kote.de">swu@ceram-kote.de</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 12:30:35 +1000<br>
From: "Peter Allison" <<a href="mailto:pm.allison@bigpond.com">pm.allison@bigpond.com</a>><br>
To: "digestion" <<a href="mailto:digestion@bioenergylists.org">digestion@bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
Message-ID: <87E98810AD06450E845B36321D9EBE6C@dellc10k9ci56b><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
With regard to utilizing digestate as a crop fertilizer, it is often stated the slurry is spread on fields with the inherent problem of biological toxicity and crusting of surface applications.<br>
I believe this process is an incomplete and basically a cheap and nasty means of disposing a potentially valuable resource.<br>
The addition of a 1.5% potassium hydroxide solution of to the spent digestate enables a disassociation of the solid fraction from the colloidal material. When the un-reacted and fibrous remains are filtered from the treated mix and the resultant fluid is allowed to settle, colloidal concentrate or fulvic acid will be found in the top fraction, humic acid in the lower portion and carbon rich nutrient at the bottom.<br>
The increased pH also enables a stabilization of biological activity within the fluids until dilution with water.<br>
These fractions are the most valuable components of the AD process. The bio-gas is a bonus.<br>
The fulvic acid is a supreme foliar fertilizer, the humic acid is best suited to soil applications and the carbon mud is an excellent binder for a wide range of solid crop fertilizer inclusions such as rock-dust, blood and bone, etc, before pelletizing for broadcast operations.<br>
We are desperately looking for sustainable solutions to chemical based crop fertilizers. Most agriculturalists are aware of the folly of NPK reliance.<br>
AD, like the composting of organic waste materials provides all of the nutritional requirements for every form of plant-life.<br>
Recycling of crop nutrients via AD has the ability to negate the detrimental effects of chemical agriculture, repair degraded soils, help resolve salinity problems, increase nutritional food values of crops, increase soil moisture holding capacity and put an end to the contamination of precious waterways.<br>
Simply dumping spent digestate on fields is a lazy and mindless means for disposal.<br>
Don't waste waste.<br>
Regards,<br>
Peter.<br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 00:38:31 -0500<br>
From: Alan Muller <<a href="mailto:amuller@dca.net">amuller@dca.net</a>><br>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, For Discussion of Anaerobic<br>
Digestion <<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Environmentalists Anti-AD Issues<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20110629053833.9230D178684@smtp-relay.dca.net">20110629053833.9230D178684@smtp-relay.dca.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Well, on the original point, what I've seen in Minnesota is some<br>
enviro types cheerleading for AD in a rather uninformed way, as if<br>
this is their latest enthusiasm in a long line including corn<br>
ethanol, "biomass" burning, etc. Others, of course, are concerned<br>
that proposed projects wouldn't be good neighbors.<br>
<br>
The interest is sometimes connected to improved organics management,<br>
but more usually to the--typically insignificant--electricity or<br>
"biogas" production. Rarely are people thinking much about the fate<br>
of the digestate. The investors and "economic development" types are<br>
mostly interested in harvesting some of the various incentives<br>
associated with "renewable energy." They, and the politicians, are<br>
confused by the plethora of folk peddling magic bullet solutions to<br>
energy and materials management problems. It matters not,<br>
apparently, that almost all of these ignore basic principles of<br>
chemistry and thermodynamics we all supposedly learnt in high school.<br>
<br>
Overall, an amusing but not very productive scene.....<br>
<br>
am<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:05:04 +0200<br>
From: "Randy Mott" <<a href="mailto:randymott@ceeres.eu">randymott@ceeres.eu</a>><br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
Message-ID: <002201cc3622$7d76fe00$7864fa00$@<a href="http://ceeres.eu" target="_blank">ceeres.eu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Okay. My nickname is the Gordon Gecko of biogas: cost per ton? Value of<br>
separate constituents per ton?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Randy Mott<br>
<br>
CEERES<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Peter<br>
Allison<br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:31 AM<br>
To: digestion<br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
With regard to utilizing digestate as a crop fertilizer, it is often stated<br>
the slurry is spread on fields with the inherent problem of biological<br>
toxicity and crusting of surface applications.<br>
<br>
I believe this process is an incomplete and basically a cheap and nasty<br>
means of disposing a potentially valuable resource.<br>
<br>
The addition of a 1.5% potassium hydroxide solution of to the spent<br>
digestate enables a disassociation of the solid fraction from the colloidal<br>
material. When the un-reacted and fibrous remains are filtered from the<br>
treated mix and the resultant fluid is allowed to settle, colloidal<br>
concentrate or fulvic acid will be found in the top fraction, humic acid in<br>
the lower portion and carbon rich nutrient at the bottom.<br>
<br>
The increased pH also enables a stabilization of biological activity within<br>
the fluids until dilution with water.<br>
<br>
These fractions are the most valuable components of the AD process. The<br>
bio-gas is a bonus.<br>
<br>
The fulvic acid is a supreme foliar fertilizer, the humic acid is best<br>
suited to soil applications and the carbon mud is an excellent binder for a<br>
wide range of solid crop fertilizer inclusions such as rock-dust, blood and<br>
bone, etc, before pelletizing for broadcast operations.<br>
<br>
We are desperately looking for sustainable solutions to chemical based crop<br>
fertilizers. Most agriculturalists are aware of the folly of NPK reliance.<br>
<br>
AD, like the composting of organic waste materials provides all of the<br>
nutritional requirements for every form of plant-life.<br>
<br>
Recycling of crop nutrients via AD has the ability to negate the detrimental<br>
effects of chemical agriculture, repair degraded soils, help resolve<br>
salinity problems, increase nutritional food values of crops, increase soil<br>
moisture holding capacity and put an end to the contamination of precious<br>
waterways.<br>
<br>
Simply dumping spent digestate on fields is a lazy and mindless means for<br>
disposal.<br>
<br>
Don't waste waste.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Peter.<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 09:26:02 +0200<br>
From: "Randy Mott" <<a href="mailto:randymott@ceeres.eu">randymott@ceeres.eu</a>><br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Environmentalists Anti-AD Issues<br>
Message-ID: <003201cc362d$ccf3cde0$66db69a0$@<a href="http://ceeres.eu" target="_blank">ceeres.eu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
The introduction to our odor White Paper:<br>
<br>
" Every major environmental organization has endorsed biogas as the most<br>
environmentally friendly method of addressing management of organic waste.<br>
These conclusions by professional environmental advocates completely<br>
contradict the uninformed views of local residents overly concerned over<br>
this issue. Environmental groups widely support biogas as the preferred<br>
method of dealing with biodegradable wastes." Instead of sending it to<br>
landfill, anaerobic digestion allows us to convert this waste into biogas,<br>
making it part of the solution." Greenpeace:<br>
<a href="http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog" target="_blank">http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/blog</a><br>
/climate/the-weekly-geek-anaerobic-digestion-20080220 . Greenpeace calls for<br>
"biodegradable household and food industry waste" to be taken to a "local<br>
biogas plant . urban centres." Greenpeace brochure on biogas in the UK, page<br>
12: <a href="http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/" target="_blank">http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/</a> FullReport/7154.pdf<br>
. Friends of the Earth has specifically endorsed construction of<br>
biodegradation facilities in Poland for organic wastes since 2008.<br>
<a href="http://bankwatch.org/documents/letter_" target="_blank">http://bankwatch.org/documents/letter_</a> DGRegio_08_05_08.pdf. Note: all of<br>
these groups are talking about biogas for waste management, not farm biogas,<br>
which is an important distinction, explained below.<br>
<br>
" The question is obvious: what do these professional environmental<br>
groups know about biogas than local Polish residents do not seem to know?<br>
Obviously there is an information gap. We will provide the answer in our<br>
description of the technology successfully developed in Denmark over the<br>
last thirty years."<br>
<br>
<br>
It gets better, but this is to get their attention.<br>
<br>
Randy Mott<br>
CEERES<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Alan Muller<br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:39 AM<br>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion; For Discussion of Anaerobic<br>
Digestion<br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Environmentalists Anti-AD Issues<br>
<br>
Well, on the original point, what I've seen in Minnesota is some enviro<br>
types cheerleading for AD in a rather uninformed way, as if this is their<br>
latest enthusiasm in a long line including corn ethanol, "biomass" burning,<br>
etc. Others, of course, are concerned that proposed projects wouldn't be<br>
good neighbors.<br>
<br>
The interest is sometimes connected to improved organics management, but<br>
more usually to the--typically insignificant--electricity or "biogas"<br>
production. Rarely are people thinking much about the fate of the<br>
digestate. The investors and "economic development" types are mostly<br>
interested in harvesting some of the various incentives associated with<br>
"renewable energy." They, and the politicians, are confused by the plethora<br>
of folk peddling magic bullet solutions to energy and materials management<br>
problems. It matters not, apparently, that almost all of these ignore basic<br>
principles of chemistry and thermodynamics we all supposedly learnt in high<br>
school.<br>
<br>
Overall, an amusing but not very productive scene.....<br>
<br>
am<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Digestion mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
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sts.org</a><br>
<br>
for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:23:27 +0800<br>
From: Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>, For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Fwd: The biology of biogas production<br>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=iCPU9n=<a href="mailto:ULeu9W-5JM6%2BMNCXWAMQ@mail.gmail.com">ULeu9W-5JM6+MNCXWAMQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"<br>
<br>
Dear Paul,<br>
The text book opinion is that methanogens are helped by a large number of<br>
other bacteria in the process of methanogenesis. Some time ago I had posed a<br>
question to Gasan that if there are so many different organisms involved in<br>
this process, why we did not get a lot more carbon dioxide in our biogas<br>
than the 40% that everybody reports. He wrote that the organisms that<br>
associated themselves with the methanogens used the carbon dioxide as the<br>
source of carbon. Gasan may elaborate this point.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
<br>
<br>
2011/6/29 Paul Harris <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
<br>
> G'day A.D. Karve et al,****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> This post from a while back prompted an interesting thought - if you are<br>
> right we may be able to acclimate a digester to using just CO2 as the carbon<br>
> source, so we could convert CO2 back to methane and solve both CO2 emissions<br>
> and "peak oil".****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> The quality ratio of CH4 to CO2 does vary a bit, sometimes being less than<br>
> 50% methane and sometimes claims of over 90% methane, but David Fulford has<br>
> shown that sugar and starch give 50% methane so any improvement is due to<br>
> some methanogens using CO2 produced earlier in the sequence and H+ from<br>
> water and acids to make CH4 and H2O.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Happy digesting,****<br>
><br>
> HOOROO****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences,<br>
> The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph<br>
> : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%207880" value="+61883037880">+61 8 8303 7880</a> Fax : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%204386" value="+61883034386">+61 8 8303 4386</a><br>
> mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a> <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris****" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris****</a><br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M****<br>
><br>
> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
> information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<br>
> intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
> delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No<br>
> representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of<br>
> viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<br>
> recipient.****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> *From:* <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> [mailto:<br>
> <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *Anand Karve<br>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 June 2011 12:50 PM<br>
> *To:* <a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
> *Subject:* [Digestion] Fwd: The biology of biogas production****<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ** **<br>
><br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
> From: *Anand Karve* <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Date: 2011/6/2<br>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] The biology of biogas production<br>
> To: Gasan Osojnik <<a href="mailto:gasan.osojnik@gmail.com">gasan.osojnik@gmail.com</a>><br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> Dear List,****<br>
><br>
> Irrespective of the substrate, design of the system or the temperature of<br>
> the reaction, the proportion of methane to carbon dioxide in the<br>
> biogas seems to be constant all over the world. Is there an<br>
> equilibrium between these two gases that keeps this proportion constant?<br>
> Because in that case, one might introduce carbon dioxide from outside into<br>
> the biogas plant and see if the organisms in the digester produce more<br>
> methane to reach the euilibrium constant. I shall be grateful to get your<br>
> reaction on this. ****<br>
><br>
> Yours****<br>
><br>
> A.D.Karve ****<br>
><br>
> 2011/3/22 Gasan Osojnik <<a href="mailto:gasan.osojnik@gmail.com">gasan.osojnik@gmail.com</a>>****<br>
><br>
> Hi Mohamed,<br>
><br>
> The general (though I am sure there will be other interpretations)<br>
> mechanism of biogas formation is 4-step and involves:<br>
> 1. Hydrolysis (degradation of polymers)<br>
> 2. Acidogenesis (the formation of volatile fatty acids - low molecular<br>
> carboxylic acids)<br>
> 3. Acetogenesis (the formation of acetate, CO2 and H2)<br>
> 4. Methanogenesis (from acetete -> CO2 and CH4 is formed, from CO2 and H2<br>
> -> CH4 is formed, methanogenesis from acetate and CO2+H2 has to run<br>
> simultaneously for the proces to be stable)<br>
><br>
> The last step is the reason why there will be always some CO2 in biogas.<br>
> Each of this steps is carried out by different groups of microorganisms.<br>
><br>
> So the initial biochemical sources of biogas are carbohydrates, proteins,<br>
> fats etc. In the long run, any substance that can be converted<br>
> intermediately either to dissolved CO2 and H2 or to acetate is appropriate<br>
> for biogas production.<br>
><br>
> BR from Slovenia, Gasan****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> *Ilja Gasan OSOJNIK ?RNIVEC, *L05 - Laboratory for Environmental Sciences<br>
> and Engineering ****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> [image: KI+letokemije.jpg]****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> National Institute of Chemistry****<br>
><br>
> Hajdrihova 19****<br>
><br>
> SI-1001 Ljubljana****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> Tel.: (01) 47 60 239****<br>
><br>
> (01) 47 60 200****<br>
><br>
> Fax: (01) 47 60 300****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> ****<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Digestion mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> for more information about digestion, see<br>
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
<br>
*Please change my email address in your records to: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a> *<br>
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Message: 10<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 08:58:31 -0700 (PDT)<br>
From: Douglas Renk <<a href="mailto:douglasrenk@yahoo.com">douglasrenk@yahoo.com</a>><br>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1309363111.29679.YahooMailClassic@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1309363111.29679.YahooMailClassic@web120204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</a>><br>
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Hello "Gordon" :)<br>
?<br>
I'm curious to see Peter's response to your question.<br>
?<br>
Over and above the nutritional value of the digestate versus cost of separation and application, let's hope health and productivity of soil as a natural resource converts to monetary value. Soil's ability to sequester carbon is an ecological service that has been monetized.<br>
?<br>
<a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/49240018/lbfb-en" target="_blank">http://www.scribd.com/doc/49240018/lbfb-en</a>?<br>
?<br>
I think as agricultural or bioprocess engineers, we are by nature, conditioned to think circularly. Therefore the total cost of an agricultural model should include all costs (which should include preservation of land, fertility?and resources)?to?function as closely to a successful market model as possible.<br>
<br>
?<br>
All the best,<br>
Doug Renk<br>
<br>
--- On Wed, 6/29/11, Randy Mott <<a href="mailto:randymott@ceeres.eu">randymott@ceeres.eu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Randy Mott <<a href="mailto:randymott@ceeres.eu">randymott@ceeres.eu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'" <<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2011, 2:05 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Okay. My nickname is the Gordon Gecko of biogas: cost per ton? Value of separate constituents per ton?<br>
?<br>
Randy Mott<br>
CEERES<br>
?<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of Peter Allison<br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:31 AM<br>
To: digestion<br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
?<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
With regard to utilizing digestate as a crop fertilizer, it is often stated the slurry is spread on fields with the inherent problem of biological toxicity and crusting of surface applications.<br>
<br>
I believe this process is an incomplete and basically a cheap and nasty means of disposing a potentially valuable resource.<br>
<br>
The addition of a 1.5% potassium hydroxide solution of? to the spent digestate enables a disassociation of the solid fraction from the colloidal material. When the un-reacted and?fibrous remains are filtered from the treated mix and the resultant fluid is?allowed to settle, colloidal concentrate or fulvic acid?will be found in the top fraction, humic acid in the lower portion and carbon rich nutrient at the bottom.<br>
<br>
The increased pH also enables a stabilization of biological activity within the fluids?until dilution with water.<br>
<br>
These fractions are the most valuable components of the AD process. The bio-gas is a bonus.<br>
<br>
The fulvic acid is a supreme foliar fertilizer, the humic acid is best suited to soil applications and the carbon mud is an excellent binder for a wide range of solid crop fertilizer inclusions such as rock-dust, blood and bone, etc, before pelletizing for broadcast operations.<br>
<br>
We are desperately looking for sustainable solutions to chemical based crop fertilizers. Most agriculturalists are aware of the folly of NPK reliance.<br>
<br>
AD, like the?composting of organic waste materials provides all of the nutritional requirements?for?every form of?plant-life.<br>
<br>
Recycling of crop nutrients via AD has the ability to negate the detrimental effects of chemical agriculture, repair degraded soils, help resolve salinity problems, increase nutritional food values of crops, increase soil moisture holding capacity?and put an end to the contamination of precious waterways.?<br>
<br>
Simply dumping spent digestate on fields is a lazy and mindless means?for disposal.<br>
<br>
Don't waste waste.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Peter.??<br>
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br>
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<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
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Message: 11<br>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 21:55:08 +0530<br>
From: Murali Krishna <<a href="mailto:bmkrishna6@gmail.com">bmkrishna6@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
<<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Fwd: The biology of biogas production<br>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimK=<a href="mailto:jpAkgRjbfxa%2BHJbdpnncQV2RA@mail.gmail.com">jpAkgRjbfxa+HJbdpnncQV2RA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Good day Paul,<br>
<br>
CO2 is isolated and streamed into a separate chamber. Carbonic Anhydrase<br>
enzymes are used to isolate CO2 from the digester. Carbonic anhydrase,<br>
rapidly converts carbon dioxide to bicarbonate. Thus CO2 is efficiently<br>
removed from the solution in the digester. The product of this reaction,<br>
bicarbonate, can then be reacted with sodium to form NaHCO2, baking soda.<br>
By this process CO2 emission into atomosphere is reduced substantially and<br>
there is more space in the digester. There is a patent on this.<br>
<br>
The isolated CO2 after modifications is sent back into the digester and<br>
Methane is generated. (This second part I need to yet confirm). I shall<br>
come back to you soon on this.<br>
<br>
Krishna<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2011/6/29 Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
> Dear Paul,<br>
> The text book opinion is that methanogens are hel.ped by a large number of<br>
> other bacteria in the process of methanogenesis. Some time ago I had posed a<br>
> question to Gasan that if there are so many different organisms involved in<br>
> this process, why we did not get a lot more carbon dioxide in our biogas<br>
> than the 40% that everybody reports. He wrote that the organisms that<br>
> associated themselves with the methanogens used the carbon dioxide as the<br>
> source of carbon. Gasan may elaborate this point.<br>
> Yours<br>
> A.D.Karve<br>
><br>
><br>
> 2011/6/29 Paul Harris <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
><br>
>> G'day A.D. Karve et al,****<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> This post from a while back prompted an interesting thought - if you are<br>
>> right we may be able to acclimate a digester to using just CO2 as the carbon<br>
>> source, so we could convert CO2 back to methane and solve both CO2 emissions<br>
>> and "peak oil".****<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> The quality ratio of CH4 to CO2 does vary a bit, sometimes being less than<br>
>> 50% methane and sometimes claims of over 90% methane, but David Fulford has<br>
>> shown that sugar and starch give 50% methane so any improvement is due to<br>
>> some methanogens using CO2 produced earlier in the sequence and H+ from<br>
>> water and acids to make CH4 and H2O.****<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> Happy digesting,****<br>
>><br>
>> HOOROO****<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences,<br>
>> The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph<br>
>> : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%207880" value="+61883037880">+61 8 8303 7880</a> Fax : <a href="tel:%2B61%208%208303%204386" value="+61883034386">+61 8 8303 4386</a><br>
>> mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a> <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris****" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris****</a><br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M****<br>
>><br>
>> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<br>
>> information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<br>
>> intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<br>
>> delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<br>
>> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No<br>
>> representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of<br>
>> viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<br>
>> recipient.****<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> *From:* <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> [mailto:<br>
>> <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *Anand Karve<br>
>><br>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 June 2011 12:50 PM<br>
>> *To:* <a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>> *Subject:* [Digestion] Fwd: The biology of biogas production****<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> ** **<br>
>><br>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
>> From: *Anand Karve* <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> Date: 2011/6/2<br>
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] The biology of biogas production<br>
>> To: Gasan Osojnik <<a href="mailto:gasan.osojnik@gmail.com">gasan.osojnik@gmail.com</a>><br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> Dear List,****<br>
>><br>
>> Irrespective of the substrate, design of the system or the temperature of<br>
>> the reaction, the proportion of methane to carbon dioxide in the<br>
>> biogas seems to be constant all over the world. Is there an<br>
>> equilibrium between these two gases that keeps this proportion constant?<br>
>> Because in that case, one might introduce carbon dioxide from outside into<br>
>> the biogas plant and see if the organisms in the digester produce more<br>
>> methane to reach the euilibrium constant. I shall be grateful to get your<br>
>> reaction on this. ****<br>
>><br>
>> Yours****<br>
>><br>
>> A.D.Karve ****<br>
>><br>
>> 2011/3/22 Gasan Osojnik <<a href="mailto:gasan.osojnik@gmail.com">gasan.osojnik@gmail.com</a>>****<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Mohamed,<br>
>><br>
>> The general (though I am sure there will be other interpretations)<br>
>> mechanism of biogas formation is 4-step and involves:<br>
>> 1. Hydrolysis (degradation of polymers)<br>
>> 2. Acidogenesis (the formation of volatile fatty acids - low molecular<br>
>> carboxylic acids)<br>
>> 3. Acetogenesis (the formation of acetate, CO2 and H2)<br>
>> 4. Methanogenesis (from acetete -> CO2 and CH4 is formed, from CO2 and H2<br>
>> -> CH4 is formed, methanogenesis from acetate and CO2+H2 has to run<br>
>> simultaneously for the proces to be stable)<br>
>><br>
>> The last step is the reason why there will be always some CO2 in biogas.<br>
>> Each of this steps is carried out by different groups of microorganisms.<br>
>><br>
>> So the initial biochemical sources of biogas are carbohydrates, proteins,<br>
>> fats etc. In the long run, any substance that can be converted<br>
>> intermediately either to dissolved CO2 and H2 or to acetate is appropriate<br>
>> for biogas production.<br>
>><br>
>> BR from Slovenia, Gasan****<br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> *Ilja Gasan OSOJNIK ?RNIVEC, *L05 - Laboratory for Environmental Sciences<br>
>> and Engineering ****<br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> [image: KI+letokemije.jpg]****<br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> National Institute of Chemistry****<br>
>><br>
>> Hajdrihova 19****<br>
>><br>
>> SI-1001 Ljubljana****<br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> Tel.: (01) 47 60 239****<br>
>><br>
>> (01) 47 60 200****<br>
>><br>
>> Fax: (01) 47 60 300****<br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> ****<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Digestion mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> for more information about digestion, see<br>
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
>> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ***<br>
> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
><br>
> *Please change my email address in your records to: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a> *<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Digestion mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> for more information about digestion, see<br>
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
End of Digestion Digest, Vol 10, Issue 24<br>
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