Who said anything about refining the sugar? As I am reading Dr. Karve's posts, I am thinking of raw sugar which is pretty cheap in Central America where I work, or using the cachasa; kind of molasses which floats top and is skimmed off in Artisanal sugar production, which is a waste product anyway. <div>
For small farmers in the tropics small patches of sugarcane or sorghum could easily provide this quantity of sugar needed to fertilize a small holding ;in which case there is no need for refining just production of juice calculation of sugar levels and application in liquid of the correct amount. <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 9:09 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:finstein@envsci.rutgers.edu">finstein@envsci.rutgers.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Regarding sugar as a soil amendment:<br>
<br>
Consider the environmental cost of growing cane (or other sugar rich<br>
plant) and that of refining the sugar. Putting aside any supposed benefit,<br>
this should give pause to the "idea" being discussed!<br>
<br>
Mel<br>
<br>
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> 1. Re: Digestate as fertilizer. (Anand Karve)<br>
> 2. Re: Digestate as fertilizer. (Jean-Luc Sallustro)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 11:02:23 +0800<br>
> From: Anand Karve <<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br>
> <<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <<a href="mailto:CACPy7SfafYs8oZk0PHPPSQMQp-hdhKaeKt9-4C0Qg-zSZOnZ0w@mail.gmail.com">CACPy7SfafYs8oZk0PHPPSQMQp-hdhKaeKt9-4C0Qg-zSZOnZ0w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
><br>
> Dear Jean-Luc,<br>
> on dry weight basis, green leaves have the same nutritional calorific<br>
> value as sugar. Therefore, when farmers apply green manure to crops,<br>
> they are also feeding the soil microbes. It is recommended by many<br>
> sugar factories in India to grow a green manure crop between the rows<br>
> of sugarcane, at the time of planting sugarcane, and then to plough<br>
> the green manure into the soil at two month stage of the crop.<br>
> Analysis of soils before and after this operation showed an almost<br>
> doubling of N,P and K in the soil. This increase in NPK did not come<br>
> directly from the green matter incorporated into the soil but through<br>
> the microbes, which multipled their numbers when they fed on the green<br>
> matter and took up minerals directly from the soil. We acknowledge the<br>
> fact that the top 10 to 15 cm layer of soil in a field is very<br>
> fertile, but we do not call it humus, because the organic content in<br>
> our soils is always very low. The fertility of this layer is<br>
> contributed by the fact that leaves, animal dung, and other organic<br>
> residues fall on top of the soil, where they are decomposed by aerobic<br>
> micro-organisms. As I stated above, the microbes multiply their<br>
> numbers when provided with any source of organic carbon. In the<br>
> process of multiplication, they take up the minerals directly from the<br>
> capillary water in the soil. Soil contains an infinite variety of<br>
> microbes, and those which are best adapted to that particular soil<br>
> condition multiply. If the soil is phosphate deficient, the phosphate<br>
> solubilizing bacteria would multiply. If the soil were nitrogen<br>
> deficient, the N-fixing microbes would be better able to survive than<br>
> the non-fixing ones, and if the soil were saline, the halophytic<br>
> microbes would have the upper hand over others. It is plain "survival<br>
> of the fittest". After the microbes have exhausted the food, they die<br>
> of starvation and release the organo-mineral compounds into the soil,<br>
> increasing thereby the soil fertility. The organo-mineral complexes,<br>
> such as proteins, enzymes and co-enzymes are soluble in water and they<br>
> can be readily taken up by plants. The plants don't care from which<br>
> category of microbes they get their minerals. There is no need to<br>
> apply chemical fertilizers to the soil. And there is also no need to<br>
> apply any special kinds of bacterial cultures to the soil.<br>
> Yours<br>
> A.D.Karve<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jean-Luc Sallustro<br>
> <<a href="mailto:jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com">jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Dear Anand,<br>
>><br>
>> I am really interested by this vision of sugar nutrient cycle.<br>
>> Let me say first that even if I am from Europe, (you are right on this<br>
>> point) my group is in Mauritius, and then involved with sugar cane<br>
>> agronomy<br>
>> (or other Poacae)<br>
>> Sure that cellulose is a kind of sugar ... but strongly polymerized, at<br>
>> a<br>
>> point that the only bacterial strain enabling its degradation is aerobic<br>
>> and<br>
>> particularly thermophilic.<br>
>> Soils macro decomposers such as colemboles or worms alternatively or<br>
>> complementary play a role within this decomposition stage of cellulose<br>
>> and<br>
>> hemicellulosis.<br>
>> What seems to me of utmost interest in your assessment is that sugar (I<br>
>> assume you are considering raw sugar ?) provides for direct enhancement<br>
>> of<br>
>> soil fertility (when bring with organic N) for the reason that this<br>
>> immediately available energy positively stresses bacterial flora (but<br>
>> which<br>
>> strains in particular ?) and then allows the production of mineral<br>
>> nutrients<br>
>> to reach the plants depending on export demands (Poacae are C4 type and<br>
>> therefore strongly dependant from photocycles and water availability).<br>
>> The way different +/- polymerized sugars reach the soil is a well known<br>
>> thing, but what's about humus role (even as thin it seems ... there is<br>
>> always an upper layer of biomass on the 0 to 15 cm depth of soils), and<br>
>> what<br>
>> is happening as an interaction between microbial activity in this<br>
>> superior<br>
>> soil level, sugar solution (rain fed context) and other N linked<br>
>> bacterial<br>
>> strains ?<br>
>> My hypothesis was that there is a risk of demobilisation of these<br>
>> endemic<br>
>> bacterial strains, maybe one can put the question like this "when<br>
>> stopping<br>
>> "sugar feeding" what will happen with organic N, P and K availability ?"<br>
>> All the best<br>
>> Jean-Luc<br>
>><br>
>> Le lundi 04 juillet 2011 ? 12:11 +0800, Anand Karve a ?crit :<br>
>><br>
>> Dear Jean-Luc,<br>
>> feeding sugar to the soil microbes is done by the plants themselves.<br>
>> The water of guttation of sorghum and safflower contains sugar. All<br>
>> the plants that are infested by aphids also drop sugar on the ground<br>
>> below their canopy. The leaves that fall on the ground also contain a<br>
>> type of sugar (cellulose), In the case of many trees, one finds a<br>
>> carpet of fruits underneath their canopy. The fruits contain sugars.<br>
>> Chickpea (Cicer arietinum) leaves exude organic acids, which too fall<br>
>> on the ground to feed the soil microbes. In India, in the region where<br>
>> I live, literally thousands of farmers have taken up the practice of<br>
>> applying sugar to the field. For every hectare,they use a mixture of<br>
>> 25 kg sugar, 25 kg cattle dung and 25 litres cattle urine. It is<br>
>> applied once every three months. In an earlier experiment, I got the<br>
>> soil from a non-irrigated and non-fertilized field analysed<br>
>> consecutively for 5 years and found that in spite of growing crops on<br>
>> this soil, there was no change in the soil composition over this<br>
>> period. In India, the agricultural yield is positively correlated with<br>
>> the rainfall and not with any other factors like the sale of<br>
>> fertilizers, pesticides, hybrid seed, etc. Humus is a typical topic<br>
>> raised by European agricultural scientists. Nobody talks of it in<br>
>> India, most probably because our soils do not have the humus layer<br>
>> that European soils have.<br>
>> Yours<br>
>> A.D.Karve<br>
>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Jean-Luc Sallustro<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com">jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Dear A? D Karve<br>
>>><br>
>>> For my understanding microbes have an important role in the soil at a<br>
>>> stage<br>
>>> where endemic proto nutrient are made available for them within the<br>
>>> humic<br>
>>> clay complex.<br>
>>> This deep stage of macro nutrient (organic NPK) evolution can be<br>
>>> depleted<br>
>>> for many reasons such as K sustainable sequestration, unavailability of<br>
>>> macro nutrient, not enough water percolation (soil solubility) etc.<br>
>>> Don't you think that one of the risks of depletion in N chain can be<br>
>>> the<br>
>>> demobilization of upper soil decomposers due to the fact that<br>
>>> immedialty<br>
>>> avalible nutrient are provided (sugar)<br>
>>> Regards<br>
>>> J-L Sallustro<br>
>>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Digestion mailing list<br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
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>> for more information about digestion, see<br>
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
>> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Digestion mailing list<br>
>><br>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>><br>
>> for more information about digestion, see<br>
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
>> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ***<br>
> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
><br>
> *Please change my email address in your records to: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</a> *<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 2<br>
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 18:45:16 +0400<br>
> From: Jean-Luc Sallustro<br>
> <<a href="mailto:jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com">jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com</a>><br>
> To: <a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestate as fertilizer.<br>
> Message-ID: <1309877116.2371.43.camel@laptop-jls><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"<br>
><br>
> Dear Anand,<br>
><br>
> I shall stress on the fact that we, in Mauritius and elsewhere in<br>
> Africa, are fighting against this abusive use of chemical fertilizers.<br>
> This battle is at a point that one of our subsidiary is totally devoted<br>
> to a project which aims at producing organo-mineral fertilizer providing<br>
> that we are supplied with compost and digestats issuing from several<br>
> composting and biodigester plants we are builidng (treatment of poultry<br>
> waste, sugar factory waste and ethanol distillery effluents, hostels<br>
> organic waste ...) Then I totally agree with your assessment regarding<br>
> the fact there is no inescapable need for chemical fertilizer.<br>
> Now, my question was on the use of raw sugar not on the soundness of a<br>
> biofertilization strategy. Once again I would like to stress on the fact<br>
> that "sugar fertilization" seems to be a very interesting alternative<br>
> to CMS for example.<br>
> Let me rise again the point related to the comparison you make between<br>
> sugar (as a low level polymerised carbonaceous compound) and cellulosis<br>
> and hemicellulosis. For my understanding the very question is here to<br>
> define what we call "organic matter", not in absolute terms of calorific<br>
> value but through an ecological point of view then taking into account<br>
> the complex interaction of microbial strains, macro decomposers,<br>
> chemical role of water as a solvant, chemical role of clay as a substrat<br>
> for H+ ions exchanges etc ... We all know a bit about NPK export from<br>
> soils solutions to plants but it seems to me that we are not enough<br>
> aware about organic matter, and worst about biomass in soils. As an<br>
> example I have raised the fact that sugar will feed a particular class<br>
> of microbes (and maybe other macro biotypes) and that will maybe imply<br>
> that a lot of other bacterial strains will disappear or be weakened<br>
> (celullosis decompostion ones). Do you have some observation to share on<br>
> this point ?<br>
> Best regards<br>
> jean-luc<br>
><br>
><br>
> Le mardi 05 juillet 2011 ? 11:02 +0800, Anand Karve a ?crit :<br>
><br>
>> Dear Jean-Luc,<br>
>> on dry weight basis, green leaves have the same nutritional calorific<br>
>> value as sugar. Therefore, when farmers apply green manure to crops,<br>
>> they are also feeding the soil microbes. It is recommended by many<br>
>> sugar factories in India to grow a green manure crop between the rows<br>
>> of sugarcane, at the time of planting sugarcane, and then to plough<br>
>> the green manure into the soil at two month stage of the crop.<br>
>> Analysis of soils before and after this operation showed an almost<br>
>> doubling of N,P and K in the soil. This increase in NPK did not come<br>
>> directly from the green matter incorporated into the soil but through<br>
>> the microbes, which multipled their numbers when they fed on the green<br>
>> matter and took up minerals directly from the soil. We acknowledge the<br>
>> fact that the top 10 to 15 cm layer of soil in a field is very<br>
>> fertile, but we do not call it humus, because the organic content in<br>
>> our soils is always very low. The fertility of this layer is<br>
>> contributed by the fact that leaves, animal dung, and other organic<br>
>> residues fall on top of the soil, where they are decomposed by aerobic<br>
>> micro-organisms. As I stated above, the microbes multiply their<br>
>> numbers when provided with any source of organic carbon. In the<br>
>> process of multiplication, they take up the minerals directly from the<br>
>> capillary water in the soil. Soil contains an infinite variety of<br>
>> microbes, and those which are best adapted to that particular soil<br>
>> condition multiply. If the soil is phosphate deficient, the phosphate<br>
>> solubilizing bacteria would multiply. If the soil were nitrogen<br>
>> deficient, the N-fixing microbes would be better able to survive than<br>
>> the non-fixing ones, and if the soil were saline, the halophytic<br>
>> microbes would have the upper hand over others. It is plain "survival<br>
>> of the fittest". After the microbes have exhausted the food, they die<br>
>> of starvation and release the organo-mineral compounds into the soil,<br>
>> increasing thereby the soil fertility. The organo-mineral complexes,<br>
>> such as proteins, enzymes and co-enzymes are soluble in water and they<br>
>> can be readily taken up by plants. The plants don't care from which<br>
>> category of microbes they get their minerals. There is no need to<br>
>> apply chemical fertilizers to the soil. And there is also no need to<br>
>> apply any special kinds of bacterial cultures to the soil.<br>
>> Yours<br>
>> A.D.Karve<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Jean-Luc Sallustro<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com">jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > Dear Anand,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I am really interested by this vision of sugar nutrient cycle.<br>
>> > Let me say first that even if I am from Europe, (you are right on this<br>
>> > point) my group is in Mauritius, and then involved with sugar cane<br>
>> agronomy<br>
>> > (or other Poacae)<br>
>> > Sure that cellulose is a kind of sugar ... but strongly polymerized,<br>
>> at a<br>
>> > point that the only bacterial strain enabling its degradation is<br>
>> aerobic and<br>
>> > particularly thermophilic.<br>
>> > Soils macro decomposers such as colemboles or worms alternatively or<br>
>> > complementary play a role within this decomposition stage of cellulose<br>
>> and<br>
>> > hemicellulosis.<br>
>> > What seems to me of utmost interest in your assessment is that sugar<br>
>> (I<br>
>> > assume you are considering raw sugar ?) provides for direct<br>
>> enhancement of<br>
>> > soil fertility (when bring with organic N) for the reason that this<br>
>> > immediately available energy positively stresses bacterial flora (but<br>
>> which<br>
>> > strains in particular ?) and then allows the production of mineral<br>
>> nutrients<br>
>> > to reach the plants depending on export demands (Poacae are C4 type<br>
>> and<br>
>> > therefore strongly dependant from photocycles and water availability).<br>
>> > The way different +/- polymerized sugars reach the soil is a well<br>
>> known<br>
>> > thing, but what's about humus role (even as thin it seems ... there is<br>
>> > always an upper layer of biomass on the 0 to 15 cm depth of soils),<br>
>> and what<br>
>> > is happening as an interaction between microbial activity in this<br>
>> superior<br>
>> > soil level, sugar solution (rain fed context) and other N linked<br>
>> bacterial<br>
>> > strains ?<br>
>> > My hypothesis was that there is a risk of demobilisation of these<br>
>> endemic<br>
>> > bacterial strains, maybe one can put the question like this "when<br>
>> stopping<br>
>> > "sugar feeding" what will happen with organic N, P and K availability<br>
>> ?"<br>
>> > All the best<br>
>> > Jean-Luc<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Le lundi 04 juillet 2011 ? 12:11 +0800, Anand Karve a ?crit :<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Dear Jean-Luc,<br>
>> > feeding sugar to the soil microbes is done by the plants themselves.<br>
>> > The water of guttation of sorghum and safflower contains sugar. All<br>
>> > the plants that are infested by aphids also drop sugar on the ground<br>
>> > below their canopy. The leaves that fall on the ground also contain a<br>
>> > type of sugar (cellulose), In the case of many trees, one finds a<br>
>> > carpet of fruits underneath their canopy. The fruits contain sugars.<br>
>> > Chickpea (Cicer arietinum) leaves exude organic acids, which too fall<br>
>> > on the ground to feed the soil microbes. In India, in the region where<br>
>> > I live, literally thousands of farmers have taken up the practice of<br>
>> > applying sugar to the field. For every hectare,they use a mixture of<br>
>> > 25 kg sugar, 25 kg cattle dung and 25 litres cattle urine. It is<br>
>> > applied once every three months. In an earlier experiment, I got the<br>
>> > soil from a non-irrigated and non-fertilized field analysed<br>
>> > consecutively for 5 years and found that in spite of growing crops on<br>
>> > this soil, there was no change in the soil composition over this<br>
>> > period. In India, the agricultural yield is positively correlated with<br>
>> > the rainfall and not with any other factors like the sale of<br>
>> > fertilizers, pesticides, hybrid seed, etc. Humus is a typical topic<br>
>> > raised by European agricultural scientists. Nobody talks of it in<br>
>> > India, most probably because our soils do not have the humus layer<br>
>> > that European soils have.<br>
>> > Yours<br>
>> > A.D.Karve<br>
>> > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Jean-Luc Sallustro<br>
>> > <<a href="mailto:jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com">jean-luc.sallustro@eventure-international.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> Dear A D Karve<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> For my understanding microbes have an important role in the soil at a<br>
>> >> stage<br>
>> >> where endemic proto nutrient are made available for them within the<br>
>> humic<br>
>> >> clay complex.<br>
>> >> This deep stage of macro nutrient (organic NPK) evolution can be<br>
>> depleted<br>
>> >> for many reasons such as K sustainable sequestration, unavailability<br>
>> of<br>
>> >> macro nutrient, not enough water percolation (soil solubility) etc.<br>
>> >> Don't you think that one of the risks of depletion in N chain can be<br>
>> the<br>
>> >> demobilization of upper soil decomposers due to the fact that<br>
>> immedialty<br>
>> >> avalible nutrient are provided (sugar)<br>
>> >> Regards<br>
>> >> J-L Sallustro<br>
>> >><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Digestion mailing list<br>
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>> > for more information about digestion, see<br>
>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
>> > and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Digestion mailing list<br>
>> ><br>
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
>> > <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > for more information about digestion, see<br>
>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
>> > and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> for more information about digestion, see<br>
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 11, Issue 5<br>
> ****************************************<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
Melvin S. Finstein, Ph.D.<br>
Professor Emeritus<br>
Rutgers University<br>
<br>
105 Carmel Road<br>
Wheeling, WV 26003<br>
<a href="tel:304.242.0341" value="+13042420341">304.242.0341</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:Digestion@bioenergylists.org">Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><span style="font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:15px">"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to repay with your money."</span><div>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:15px"><br></span></font><div>Skype: Joshua.bogart</div><div>Emial: <a href="mailto:Joshua.bogart@gmail.com" target="_blank">Joshua.bogart@gmail.com</a></div>
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