<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066">Good day Dr. Karve,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066">I have been practising organic farming for more than 12 years and using several inputs. I read one of your similar articles (as above) and used 25 kgs of sugar through drip line and I could not get the same result as that of using 10 tons of compost. I also tried application of molasses with little success. Similarly, 25 kgs of fresh green leaves are also not sufficient (as per my practical experience).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066">It would be great if you would kindly mail me some of the research findings in this line, so that I shall correct the application procedures and once again try. If it works, it will really a boon to the farmers. As 10 kgs of sugar costs Rs.450 and if it is sufficient to grow a crop in one acre, the farmers can save substantial amounts.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066">Regars.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066">Murali Krishna</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000066"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Anand Karve <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Jaime and others,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Let me explain the background of my thoughts. I am an
agricultural scientist and I started working on biogas in 2003, at the age of
67. The reason was my realization that if we wanted the methane producing organisms to produce a high calorie
substance like methane we must feed them with a high calorie material. I
therefore constructed a biogas plant and when I fed it with sugar, I found that
I could get the same amount of biogas from 1 kg sugar as from 40 kg cattle dung.
I then tested starch, proteins, fats, cellulose and got more or less the same
results. In 2004 we installed these biogas plants in 40 urban households, which
had no access to cattle dung. In 2005, I read a paper on our work in a
conference. The audience just did not believe me. They said that food would
produce biogas only if it was co-fermented with cattle dung. Since then I have
been advocating that if dung is to be used as a source of energy, it should be
burned and not converted into biogas. My detractors then countered my views
with the argument that the slurry of a dung based biogas plant could be used as
fertilizer. I showed that this too was a wrong notion. If one wanted to feed
the soil microbes with an organic source of food, one should use a substance
with high nutritive value. Just 25 kg sugar added to a ha of agricultural land,
would give the same results as a 10 tons of compost. In fact, this method of
farming has now become quite popular in India and there are thousands of
farmers who apply neither compost nor chemical fertilizers to their field, but
just 25 kg sugar per ha, once every 3 months. One can equally well apply 125 kg
green leaves per ha and get the same results. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yours</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A.D.Karve</p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class=""><br clear="all"><div><div>***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br></div></div>
<br></span><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Jaime Marti Herrero <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tallerbiogas@hotmail.com" target="_blank">tallerbiogas@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:10pt" color="#000000">hi Dr Karve<br></font> you said "Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very efficient <span style="font-size:12pt">way of getting biogas" and i am agree with you. but many digesters are installed in places where there are only manure able to fed the digester. manure that if is not properly handle will be pollutant. So, manure can be used for composting, anaerobic digestion or vermiculture (and some cases gasification), and one could combine these differnt techniques. biogas is not only the main focus, also to produce bioslurry as fertilizer and use the digester as waste treatment system. this is the concept of productive biogas (more information here: </span><a href="http://www.snvworld.org/download/publications/snv_fact_productive_biogas_2014_final.pdf" style="font-size:12pt" target="_blank">http://www.snvworld.org/download/publications/snv_fact_productive_biogas_2014_final.pdf</a><span style="font-size:12pt">)</span><div>about the value of the bioslurry as fertilizer you can find more information here publihed in 2014: </div><div>From FAO: <a href="http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3441e.pdf" style="font-size:12pt" target="_blank">http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3441e.pdf</a></div><div>From Hivos: <a href="https://www.hivos.org/sites/default/files/bioslurry_book.pdf" style="font-size:12pt" target="_blank">https://www.hivos.org/sites/default/files/bioslurry_book.pdf</a></div><div>From SNV: <a href="http://www.snvworld.org/en/download/publications/alterra_report_2519_bioslurry.pdf" style="font-size:12pt" target="_blank">http://www.snvworld.org/en/download/publications/alterra_report_2519_bioslurry.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div>So we are not only focused in biogas. I think, that this is a weak vision of the anaerobic digestion. nutrient recycling should be as important as biogas production. So perhaps manure is not as efficient as other sunstrates for biogas protucion, but is also a waste that we can use.</div><div><br></div><div>about the efficiency of digesters, as commented in previous mails, the highest efficiency is found in the mobile digester that are the animal. So one idea could be that crude waste chould go first to a animal stomach (pigs, cow, chiken, worms...) and introduce their waste in a sencod artificil digester as a second treatment system.</div><div><br></div><div>But at the end, exist several situations that make posible a variety of strategies, from anaerobic digestion in urban areas, where no animals are found to eat the crude organic waste, or digesters fed with manure (from animal that have been fed with crude waste or crops) in rural areas, or combination of both, or other ideas/technologies. Finally one adapts the technology to the situation and substrates.</div><div><br></div><div>So <span style="font-size:12pt">making biogas from feces of animals is a very efficient </span><span style="font-size:12pt">way of getting biogas when no other substare is able. and not only biogas, also bioslurry and waste treatment </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt">sorry about my english</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt">keep in touch</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12pt">jaime</span></div><div><p><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#2a2a2a;background:white">-----</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(42,42,42)"><br>
<b><span style="background-color:white">Jaime Martí Herrero, PhD. </span></b></span></p><p><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(42,42,42)"><span style="background-color:white"><font size="3"><i>INER</i> (<a href="http://www.iner.gob.ec" target="_blank">www.iner.gob.ec</a>). <i>Biomasa</i></font></span></span></p><p><i style="font-size:12pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#2a2a2a">CIMNE (</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(42,42,42)"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,104,207)"><a href="http://www.cimne.com" target="_blank">www.cimne.com</a></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(42,42,42)">). <i>Building
Energy and Environment Group</i></span></p><p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(42,42,42)"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#2a2a2a">Quito · Ecuador. </span><span style="color:rgb(42,42,42);font-size:12pt">Tel. (+593)-09 857 03726</span></p><p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#2a2a2a">
<b><u>BIOGAS and Latin America</u></b><br>
-RedBioLAC:</span><a href="http://redbiolac.org/" style="font-size:10pt" target="_blank">http://redbiolac.org/</a></p><p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#2a2a2a"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#2a2a2a">-Taller Biogas Bolivia:</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#2a2a2a"><a href="http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0068cf">http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com </span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#2a2a2a"> <br><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">-Biodigestores familiares: Guía de diseño y manual de
instalación: </span></span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,104,207)"><a href="http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2008_jmh_guia_biodigestores.pdf" style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt" target="_blank">http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2008_jmh_guia_biodigestores.pdf</a></span></span></p><p style="background:white"><font face="Tahoma" style="font-size:10pt">-<a href="http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf" style="text-decoration:none;padding:0px;line-height:16.799999237060547px" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">Desarrollo, difusión e implementación de tecnologías apropiadas:Biodigestores en Bolivia</font></a>: <a href="http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf" target="_blank">http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf</a></font></p><br><br><div><hr>Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:59:23 +0530<br>From: <a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.<div><div><br><br><div dir="ltr">Dear Murali,<div>calorific value of methane from 1kg dung should read as 200 kcal and not plain calories.</div><div>Yours</div><div>A.D.Karve</div></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div>***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br></div></div>
<br><div>On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Murali Krishna <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bmkrishna6@gmail.com" target="_blank">bmkrishna6@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Good day Dr. Karve,<br><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Undoubtedly all the animals are mobile digesters and they convert their food into energy and the undigested is let out into Nature. Law of Nature does not permit 100% percent digestion of food in their digestive track and they have to excrete and this excreta is food for some other animals that exist down the line. There used to be a recycling balance in the nature when the species co-existed in a proportional order. Now due to the explosion of population of species, living styles, dwelling space, and several other changes, we find everywhere untreated waste. <u>Somewhere, someone in the line has to handle waste and we cannot allow the fecal matter release CH4 into atmosphere.</u> Urban dwelling seldom permit Nature to take its own course and recycle nor we have space to let the other animals roam around and take care of it for several reasons.<br><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Now the question is whether recycling of excreta of species (including human species) is worth recycling. Yes, it is and it has to be. We cannot allow emissions even in small quantity. And this type of projects are economically viable too! Above all, now there is equipment to evacuate the digesters. <br><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Regards,<br><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,102)">Murali Krishna<br></div></div><div><div><div><br><div>On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Anand Karve <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com" target="_blank">adkarve@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Anthony,<br>
the report is too big for my computer to handle. Can you provide a<br>
short summary of the findings? As a person who has been studying<br>
biogas technology for the last 15 years, I have my own opinions about<br>
using fecal matter as a source of biogas. Please note that under<br>
anaerobic conditions, the microbes survive by taking oxygen from their<br>
food. Therefore, one must provide them with substances that contain<br>
oxygen in their molecules. The methanogens use the oxygen in their<br>
food for their own metabolism and give out methane. ammonia and H2S,<br>
none of which ontains oxygen. All animals, including humans represent<br>
living biogas plants and their fecal matter represents material that<br>
is predominently indigestible to the biogas producing organisms.<br>
Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very efficient<br>
way of getting biogas. Secondly, if you used human fecal matter as the<br>
major feedstock, and if by chance the biogas plant goes out of order,<br>
you may not find anybody willing to repair it.<br>
Yours<br>
A.D.Karve<br>
***<br>
Dr. A.D. Karve<br>
<br>
Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br>
<br>
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>
<div><div><br>
<br>
On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Anthony Kilbride<br>
<<a href="mailto:anthony.kilbride@gmail.com" target="_blank">anthony.kilbride@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Dear Biodigestion list,<br>
><br>
> Happy New year!<br>
><br>
> I have been quietly observing the discussions of the Digestion list for a<br>
> year or more and I have gained a great insight into the world of ABD through<br>
> the various exchanges between members of the digestion list. I would like to<br>
> thank all of you who take the time to communicate your findings on the<br>
> forum; results, successes and challenges. The forum is truly a great<br>
> resource and it is wonderful to see so many individuals and groups from all<br>
> over the world who are so open and generous in sharing their information.<br>
><br>
> I now have some information of my own to share, in the form of a lessons<br>
> learned document on the experiences of the dissemination of Biodigesters for<br>
> Sanitation in Haiti, from 2010 to 2013. The research was undertaken by the<br>
> NGO; Norwegian Church Aid (NCA).<br>
> The report in its entirety can be viewed here:<br>
> <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qqu3qpkhohatol/NCA_Biogas%20report_EN.pdf?dl=0" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qqu3qpkhohatol/NCA_Biogas%20report_EN.pdf?dl=0</a><br>
><br>
> Whilst sanitation and the corresponding public health gains are not the<br>
> objectives of many of the users of the forum (usually energy and recycling<br>
> of nutrients in slurry are the main objectives), there is nevertheless a<br>
> substantial volume of work being undertaken using biodigesters for<br>
> sanitation, and the Haitian experience is one such example which I hope will<br>
> provide interesting reading for biogas practitioners.<br>
><br>
> I welcome feedback on the report, and I wish you all the greatest possible<br>
> success in 2015!<br>
><br>
> Hoorooh!<br>
><br>
> Anthony Kilbride.<br>
> WASH Manager.<br>
> NCA Haiti.<br>
><br>
><br>
</div></div>> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
> for more information about digestion, see<br>
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif"><span><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByaPavP2ev0uNjJtZlp3NkpvZkk&revid=0ByaPavP2ev0uZnVLWmEwL3JXWGxjV1ZoMUlrdVpaRkE4N1M4PQ" height="73" width="129"></span></b></span><br>Regards.<br><br>Murali Krishna<br></span><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></b><div style="text-align:center"><div style="text-align:center"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> <br></span></b><div><font size="1"><b><font style="color:rgb(255,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i><font style="font-family:georgia,serif" face="georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif"></font></i></font></b></font></div><b><br style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"></b><div><b><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"></span></b><br>
<span style="color:rgb(39,78,19)"><font size="4"><span style="color:rgb(0,255,0)">Protect Mother Nature</span></font><b><br></b></span></div><br></div></div><b><br></b></div></div></div></div>
</font></span></div>
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<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a></div></div></div></div> </div></div>
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<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
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<br>
for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
<a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>
and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif"><span><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByaPavP2ev0uNjJtZlp3NkpvZkk&revid=0ByaPavP2ev0uZnVLWmEwL3JXWGxjV1ZoMUlrdVpaRkE4N1M4PQ" height="73" width="129"></span></b></span><br>Regards.<br><br>Murali Krishna<br></span><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></b><div style="text-align:center"><div style="text-align:center"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,102);font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> <br></span></b><div><font size="1"><b><font style="color:rgb(255,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i><font style="font-family:georgia,serif" face="georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif"></font></i></font></b></font></div><b><br style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"></b><div><b><span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"></span></b><br>
<span style="color:rgb(39,78,19)"><font size="4"><span style="color:rgb(0,255,0)">Protect Mother Nature</span></font><b><br></b></span></div><br></div></div><b><br></b></div></div></div></div>
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