<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Kiran,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The biogas producing organisms live in the intestines of
animals. Therefore they eat what the animals eat. You use dung only as a source
of the organisms at the beginning, after you have constructed a biogas plant.
Later on you use only food waste as the feedstock. Dung is not required at all.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yours A.D.Karve</p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature">***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Kiran N via Digestion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">_______________________________________________<br>
Digestion mailing list<br>
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for more information about digestion, see<br>
Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>
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and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>
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<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Kiran N <<a href="mailto:kiran.nirawane@yahoo.com">kiran.nirawane@yahoo.com</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 11:41:47 +0800<br>Subject: A D Karve_pl send your case study regading AD study<br><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top"><p dir="ltr"><font><font>How sugar can br used instead of dung? Pl send any case study if avaiable</font></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font><font>Regards,</font></font><br>
<font><font><a href="mailto:kiran.nirawane@yahoo.com" target="_blank">kiran.nirawane@yahoo.com</a></font></font><br>
</p>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="top"> <div style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;color:#7e7d80">From:"<a href="mailto:digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>Date:Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 12:30 AM<br>Subject:Digestion Digest, Vol 52, Issue 5<br><br></div> <div style="padding:1.5em 0.5em 0.5em 1.2em;word-wrap:break-word">Send Digestion mailing list submissions to<br> <a>digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>or, via email,
send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> <a>digestion-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a>digestion-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Lessons Learned from the dissemination of Biodigesters<br> for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013. (Anand Karve)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 08:27:24 +0530<br>From: Anand Karve <<a>adkarve@gmail.com</a>><br>To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion<br> <<a>digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of<br> Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.<br>Message-ID:<br> <CACPy7Sc=<a>B9fCAQuK_qo7jZBSy-K2K_FvUaOSfoeEicuXWTCDFA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>Dear Jaime and others,<br><br>Let me explain the background of my thoughts. I am an agricultural<br>scientist and I started working on biogas in 2003, at the age of 67. The<br>reason was my realization that if we wanted the methane producing<br>organisms to produce a high calorie substance
like methane we must feed<br>them with a high calorie material. I therefore constructed a biogas plant<br>and when I fed it with sugar, I found that I could get the same amount of<br>biogas from 1 kg sugar as from 40 kg cattle dung. I then tested starch,<br>proteins, fats, cellulose and got more or less the same results. In 2004 we<br>installed these biogas plants in 40 urban households, which had no access<br>to cattle dung. In 2005, I read a paper on our work in a conference. The<br>audience just did not believe me. They said that food would produce biogas<br>only if it was co-fermented with cattle dung. Since then I have been<br>advocating that if dung is to be used as a source of energy, it should be<br>burned and not converted into biogas. My detractors then countered my views<br>with the argument that the slurry of a dung based biogas plant could be<br>used as fertilizer. I showed that this too was a wrong notion. If one<br>wanted to feed the soil
microbes with an organic source of food, one should<br>use a substance with high nutritive value. Just 25 kg sugar added to a ha<br>of agricultural land, would give the same results as a 10 tons of compost.<br>In fact, this method of farming has now become quite popular in India and<br>there are thousands of farmers who apply neither compost nor chemical<br>fertilizers to their field, but just 25 kg sugar per ha, once every 3<br>months. One can equally well apply 125 kg green leaves per ha and get the<br>same results.<br><br>Yours<br><br>A.D.Karve<br><br>***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br><br>On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Jaime Marti Herrero <<br><a>tallerbiogas@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> hi Dr Karve<br>> you said "Therefore,
making biogas from feces of animals is not a very<br>> efficient way of getting biogas" and i am agree with you. but many<br>> digesters are installed in places where there are only manure able to fed<br>> the digester. manure that if is not properly handle will be pollutant. So,<br>> manure can be used for composting, anaerobic digestion or vermiculture (and<br>> some cases gasification), and one could combine these differnt techniques.<br>> biogas is not only the main focus, also to produce bioslurry as fertilizer<br>> and use the digester as waste treatment system. this is the concept of<br>> productive biogas (more information here:<br>> <a href="http://www.snvworld.org/download/publications/snv_fact_productive_biogas_2014_final.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.snvworld.org/download/publications/snv_fact_productive_biogas_2014_final.pdf</a><br>> )<br>> about the value of the bioslurry as fertilizer you can find
more<br>> information here publihed in 2014:<br>> From FAO: <a href="http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3441e.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3441e.pdf</a><br>> From Hivos: <a href="https://www.hivos.org/sites/default/files/bioslurry_book.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.hivos.org/sites/default/files/bioslurry_book.pdf</a><br>> From SNV:<br>> <a href="http://www.snvworld.org/en/download/publications/alterra_report_2519_bioslurry.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.snvworld.org/en/download/publications/alterra_report_2519_bioslurry.pdf</a><br>><br>> So we are not only focused in biogas. I think, that this is a weak vision<br>> of the anaerobic digestion. nutrient recycling should be as important as<br>> biogas production. So perhaps manure is not as efficient as other<br>> sunstrates for biogas protucion, but is also a waste that we can use.<br>><br>> about the efficiency of digesters, as commented in previous mails,
the<br>> highest efficiency is found in the mobile digester that are the animal. So<br>> one idea could be that crude waste chould go first to a animal stomach<br>> (pigs, cow, chiken, worms...) and introduce their waste in a sencod<br>> artificil digester as a second treatment system.<br>><br>> But at the end, exist several situations that make posible a variety of<br>> strategies, from anaerobic digestion in urban areas, where no animals are<br>> found to eat the crude organic waste, or digesters fed with manure (from<br>> animal that have been fed with crude waste or crops) in rural areas, or<br>> combination of both, or other ideas/technologies. Finally one adapts the<br>> technology to the situation and substrates.<br>><br>> So making biogas from feces of animals is a very efficient way of getting<br>> biogas when no other substare is able. and not only biogas, also bioslurry<br>> and waste
treatment<br>> sorry about my english<br>><br>> keep in touch<br>> jaime<br>><br>> -----<br>> *Jaime Mart? Herrero, PhD. *<br>><br>> *INER* (<a href="http://www.iner.gob.ec" target="_blank">www.iner.gob.ec</a>). *Biomasa*<br>><br>> *CIMNE (*<a href="http://www.cimne.com" target="_blank">www.cimne.com</a>). *Building Energy and Environment Group*<br>><br>> Quito ? Ecuador. Tel. (+593)-09 857 03726<br>><br>> *BIOGAS and Latin America*<br>> -RedBioLAC:<a href="http://redbiolac.org/" target="_blank">http://redbiolac.org/</a><br>><br>> -Taller Biogas Bolivia:<a href="http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com</a><br>> <<a href="http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com/</a>><br>> -Biodigestores familiares: Gu?a de dise?o y manual de instalaci?n:<br>> <a href="http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2008_jmh_guia_biodigestores.pdf" target="_blank">http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2008_jmh_guia_biodigestores.pdf</a><br>><br>> -Desarrollo, difusi?n e implementaci?n de tecnolog?as<br>> apropiadas:Biodigestores en Bolivia<br>> <<a href="http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf" target="_blank">http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf</a>><br>> :<br>> <a href="http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf" target="_blank">http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf</a><br>><br>><br>> ------------------------------<br>> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:59:23 +0530<br>> From: <a>adkarve@gmail.com</a><br>> To: <a>digestion@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of<br>> Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.<br>><br>><br>> Dear Murali,<br>> calorific value of methane from 1kg dung should read as 200 kcal and not<br>> plain calories.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>><br>> ***<br>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>><br>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br>><br>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>><br>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Murali Krishna <<a>bmkrishna6@gmail.com</a>><br>> wrote:<br>><br>> Good day Dr. Karve,<br>><br>> Undoubtedly all the animals are mobile digesters and they convert their<br>> food into energy and the undigested is let out into Nature. Law of
Nature<br>> does not permit 100% percent digestion of food in their digestive track and<br>> they have to excrete and this excreta is food for some other animals that<br>> exist down the line. There used to be a recycling balance in the nature<br>> when the species co-existed in a proportional order. Now due to the<br>> explosion of population of species, living styles, dwelling space, and<br>> several other changes, we find everywhere untreated waste. *Somewhere,<br>> someone in the line has to handle waste and we cannot allow the fecal<br>> matter release CH4 into atmosphere.* Urban dwelling seldom permit Nature<br>> to take its own course and recycle nor we have space to let the other<br>> animals roam around and take care of it for several reasons.<br>><br>> Now the question is whether recycling of excreta of species (including<br>> human species) is worth recycling. Yes, it is and it has to
be. We cannot<br>> allow emissions even in small quantity. And this type of projects are<br>> economically viable too! Above all, now there is equipment to evacuate<br>> the digesters.<br>><br>> Regards,<br>><br>> Murali Krishna<br>><br>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Anand Karve <<a>adkarve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Dear Anthony,<br>> the report is too big for my computer to handle. Can you provide a<br>> short summary of the findings? As a person who has been studying<br>> biogas technology for the last 15 years, I have my own opinions about<br>> using fecal matter as a source of biogas. Please note that under<br>> anaerobic conditions, the microbes survive by taking oxygen from their<br>> food. Therefore, one must provide them with substances that contain<br>> oxygen in their molecules. The methanogens use the
oxygen in their<br>> food for their own metabolism and give out methane. ammonia and H2S,<br>> none of which ontains oxygen. All animals, including humans represent<br>> living biogas plants and their fecal matter represents material that<br>> is predominently indigestible to the biogas producing organisms.<br>> Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very efficient<br>> way of getting biogas. Secondly, if you used human fecal matter as the<br>> major feedstock, and if by chance the biogas plant goes out of order,<br>> you may not find anybody willing to repair it.<br>> Yours<br>> A.D.Karve<br>> ***<br>> Dr. A.D. Karve<br>><br>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br>><br>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br>><br>><br>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Anthony Kilbride<br>> <<a>anthony.kilbride@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > Dear Biodigestion list,<br>> ><br>> > Happy New year!<br>> ><br>> > I have been quietly observing the discussions of the Digestion list for a<br>> > year or more and I have gained a great insight into the world of ABD<br>> through<br>> > the various exchanges between members of the digestion list. I would<br>> like to<br>> > thank all of you who take the time to communicate your findings on the<br>> > forum; results, successes and challenges. The forum is truly a great<br>> > resource and it is wonderful to see so many individuals and groups from<br>> all<br>> > over the world who are so open and generous in sharing their information.<br>> ><br>> > I now have some information of my own to share, in the form of a lessons<br>> > learned document on
the experiences of the dissemination of Biodigesters<br>> for<br>> > Sanitation in Haiti, from 2010 to 2013. The research was undertaken by<br>> the<br>> > NGO; Norwegian Church Aid (NCA).<br>> > The report in its entirety can be viewed here:<br>> ><br>> <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qqu3qpkhohatol/NCA_Biogas%20report_EN.pdf?dl=0" target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qqu3qpkhohatol/NCA_Biogas%20report_EN.pdf?dl=0</a><br>> ><br>> > Whilst sanitation and the corresponding public health gains are not the<br>> > objectives of many of the users of the forum (usually energy and<br>> recycling<br>> > of nutrients in slurry are the main objectives), there is nevertheless a<br>> > substantial volume of work being undertaken using biodigesters for<br>> > sanitation, and the Haitian experience is one such example which I hope<br>> will<br>> > provide interesting reading for
biogas practitioners.<br>> ><br>> > I welcome feedback on the report, and I wish you all the greatest<br>> possible<br>> > success in 2015!<br>> ><br>> > Hoorooh!<br>> ><br>> > Anthony Kilbride.<br>> > WASH Manager.<br>> > NCA Haiti.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Digestion mailing list<br>> ><br>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> > <a>Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>> ><br>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>> ><br>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> ><br>> > for more information
about digestion, see<br>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>> > <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>> > and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Digestion mailing list<br>><br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> <a>Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>><br>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> for more information about digestion, see<br>> Beginner's
Guide to Biogas<br>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>><br>><br>> Regards.<br>><br>> Murali Krishna<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> Protect Mother Nature<br>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Digestion mailing list<br>><br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> <a>Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>><br>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> for more information about digestion, see<br>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________ Digestion mailing list to<br>> Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> <a>Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings<br>> use the web page<br>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>> for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ </a>and the Biogas Wiki<br>> <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Digestion mailing list<br>><br>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>> <a>Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>><br>> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>><br>> for more information about digestion, see<br>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>> and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br>><br>><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150111/ed9c91d4/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150111/ed9c91d4/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Subject: Digest Footer<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Digestion mailing
list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a>Digestion@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more information about digestion, see<br>Beginner's Guide to Biogas<br><a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/</a><br>and the Biogas Wiki <a href="http://biogas.wikispaces.com/" target="_blank">http://biogas.wikispaces.com/</a><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>End of Digestion Digest, Vol 52, Issue 5<br>****************************************<br></div></td> </tr> </tbody> </table></td></tr></tbody></table><br></blockquote></div><br></div>