[Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_

jim mason jim at allpowerlabs.org
Wed Dec 29 13:52:32 CST 2010


On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Toby Seiler <seilertechco at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Jim was right, I'm working on a machine that is intended to some degree to integrate principles of making synthesis gas, so I have a vested interest in his use of terminology used in marketing his product that, I believe, contributes to a public misunderstanding.  I've asked Jim nice many times in the past to consider the differences that Doug, Bill Klein, Greg and many other professionals on this list have explained to Jim and myself years ago.
>


well toby, there you go again.  and now you've also ignored the raw
data, in addition to the previous detailed description and logical
argument.  again, the comedy here is I AM NOT USING THE TERM SYNGAS TO
DESCRIBE OR MARKET THE GEK.

i posted the raw data relating to the use of the syngas term on the
gek site.  you glossed over it without impact on your claims.  here it
is again below.  i would like for you to respond to this data.  and
hopefully retract your statement that i am using this term to market
the GEK currently, along with the assertion that i am actively trying
to mislead about the nitrogen content in the gek gas (of which there
is plenty).

that represents the current state of affairs and representation.

as for future states of affairs and representations, the more i look
into the history of this term, its use internationally, and general
movement in use academically, govt, commercially and popularly, i
think i am going to start using it actively.  the transition is
actually much further along than i realized when i was just waving
hands around here about it being a better term.

but again, the current representation of the gek on our site does not
use the term actively.  please respond to the data i have presented.
show some nuance.  if we cannot respond reasonably to data clearly
presented, description and argument clearly constructed, how are we
every going to make meaningful progress on the problem of biomass
thermal conversion?  vocabulary might be the least of our problems
here . . .

here's the gek site term use inventory.  you may have to click "show
hidden" to see it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



below is an inventory of actual usage of the terms in
question on the gek site.  i've done this for the 8 most visited pages
on the site, in order.  i've then pulled out a much lower visited
page, but the one where i thought my "sins" would be the most
pronounced.  this is the one where the details of gasification are
explained.  it is the 14th most visited page.

as you will see, there is no sentence of the type "the GEK makes
syngas".  in actuality, the "syngas" term is barely even used.  in the
top 8 pages, only 3 occurrances, 1 to note that "syngas" is one of
many terms used for the gas, and 2 in passing while talking about
mixing systems.  in contrast, there are 82 occurrances of the term
"gasifier", 28 occurrances of the term "gasification", 9 for "wood
gas", 0 for "producer gas", 0 for "suction gas", 0 for "synthesis
gas".   i'll even eliminate the two passing uses of the term while
discussing mixing if that helps quell this nonsensical lexical
tempest.

more to your point, the selling pages have exactly 0 declarations that
"syngas" is the gas being made by the GEK.  that's right- zero.  the
term is in not used anywhere to make a claim about the type of gas the
gek makes, nor to promote its sale.   not sure if this changes
anything, but that's the data.  as a man of science, i trust you will
recalibrate your conclusions in relation to the real data.


here's the detail inventory.  it is done over the permanent content on
each page.  not rss feeds in the left column from elsewhere, which
change constantly and not in my control (though i could find zero
occurances of the "syngas" term there either).

1. GEK gasifier home page: http://www.gekgasifier.com
gasifier (9), gasification (4), syngas (1), wood gas (0), producer gas
(0), synthesis gas (0)
      the "offending" syngas sentence at the bottom of the page:
"The system automatically adjusts syngas/air mixture via a wide band
Bosch oxygen sensor, shakes the grate when needed, and removes ash via
a mechanical auger.")

2. How to make the GEK page: http://www.gekgasifier.com/wood-gasifier-plans/
gasifier (8), gasification (3), syngas (0), wood gas (1), producer gas
(0), synthesis gas (0)

3. Power Pallet info and buy page:
http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/gasifier-genset-skids/
gasifier (19), gasification (3), syngas (2), wood gas (2), producer
gas (0), synthesis gas (0)
       the two 2 syngas references are again in the context of
talking about fuel/air mixing

4.  Store front:  http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/
gasifier (8), gasification (3), syngas (0), wood gas (1), producer gas
(0), synthesis gas (0)

5. Wiki page with detail plans and CAD drawings on making and using
the GEK: http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123754/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier
gasifier (8), gasification (3), syngas (0), wood gas (2), producer gas
(0), synthesis gas (0)

6. BEK biochar info page:
http://www.gekgasifier.com/reactor-options/pyrolysis-biochar/
gasifier (5), gasification (2), syngas (0), wood gas (2), producer gas
(0), synthesis gas (0)

7. Gasification Basics, intro to the tech:
http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-basics/
gasifier (8), gasification (6), syngas (0), wood gas (0), producer gas
(0), synthesis gas (0)
    the closest i get to sin here is:
"Gasification is the use of heat to tranform solid biomass, or other
carbonaceous solids, into a synthetic “natural gas like” flammable
fuel.")

8. Gasifier kits info and buy page:
http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/gasifier-systems-and-kits/
gasifier (17), gasification (4), syngas (0), wood gas (1), producer
gas (0), synthesis gas (0)


Here's where i thought my biggest "sins" would be.  This is the page
with the detailed explanation of how gasification works:
http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-basics/how-it-works/
gasifier (8), gasification (18), syngas (2), wood gas (2), producer
gas (1), synthesis gas (0), suction gas (1)
     there are 2 sentences with syngas.  the "offending sentences:
"The gas produced by this method goes by a variety of names: “wood
gas”, “syngas”, “producer gas”, “suction gas”, etc."
"This is why an engine run on syngas can have such clean emissions."


those appear to be the facts from my neck of the woods.  others are
invited to review the above pages and point out where they think
things are otherwise or should be changed.  i'll happily change them,
as i don't really have a horse in this race.

percentage nitrogen density isn't really the relevant racetrack to
work out the real issues with this tech.


jim













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