[Gasification] tests to design a new cheap gasifier fan

Fri Nov 12 20:13:12 CST 2010

To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org

Has anyone tryed using the rotor out of a turbocharger to make a fan for a 
gasifier. I have taken the compressor end apart and made an adapter to mount on 
a C face motors, usually 3600 rpm, for a high volume vac system to move solids.
Les Freeman

----- Original Message ----
> From: Bill Klein <Bill_Klein at 3iAlternativePower.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
><gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 7:25:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] tests to design a new cheap gasifier fan
> 
> Jim, isn't eight inches a bit high? We use a lot of Cincinnati and Granger 
> fans successfully and find their designs well presented and worth emulation 
> and learning from their engineering, since we lack the time to rediscover 
> wheels and sliced bread. (Thank you, Mark!)
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Bill Klein,
> 3i
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jim mason" <jim at allpowerlabs.org>
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] tests to design a new cheap gasifier fan
> 
> 
> here's some update on the fan tests, including a picture of many
> rotors tested: http://gekgasifier.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1664#post1664
> 
> the suggestions from all of you were very intersting.  especially the
> toby and greg suggestions to try a second plate on the inlet side of
> the rotor, and an inlet tube to minimize the space between the inlet
> and rotor.  thank you for these suggestions toby and greg.
> 
> we've now built these variations and many others for our 10-11" rotor
> @4000rpm solutions.  sadly, there is has not been any great bumps in
> vac with any of these.  efficiency may change a bit, but in the
> pursuit of higher vac, they are not proving to be worth the effort.
> 
> so far the only thing that seems to matter is tip speed.  you get this
> through either rpm or diameter, or both.  as we are working with a
> power limited 12vdc motor, which will top out rpm wise in relation to
> rotor bite, varying rotor bite has quite a bit of impact.
> 
> the other surprising impact is seemingly the space between the rotor
> and the housing.  one would assume a tight fit between the rotor and
> the housing is good.  we've found the opposite to be true.  a 1.5"-2"
> or so open space on this rotor size vs .25" has made one of the
> biggest impacts on vac potential.
> 
> this open space between the rotor and fan housing is typical in the
> professional fans you see from cincinnati fan and the like.  i decided
> this was counterproductive for vac generation and changed it.  turns
> out it is important.
> 
> otherwise, we remain topped out at about 8" of h2o with the current
> 12vdc fan motor.  this is the highest power automotive/truck type fan
> motor we can find.
> 
> we'll post the actual numbers in more detail soon.  in the interim,
> the picture of many of the rotor blades and housing variations are
> here: http://gekgasifier.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1664#post1664
> 
> thank you goes to nathaniel at apl for running all these tests.
> 
> jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Greetings Jim, and list members.
> >
> > Jim, if you want a better fan, (and cheaper), simply make 2 disks (one
> > mounts on the shaft, the other has the larger hole for the inlet.)
> >
> > then use strips of heavy tin (or light gauge metal) and form them into a Z
> > shape (well, an L with a dog leg the other end, and the opposite way,
> > somewhat like a "90 degree Z")
> >
> > take these and pop rivet with STEEL rivets (NOT aluminum ones) so they are
> > sandwiched between the two disks in a radial fashion (like your welded
> > version on your site, BUT with the extra disk on the inlet side of things.
> >
> > the extra disk should run as close as it can to the outer housing the
> > Bernoulli principal will help stabilize the outer disk, and the outer disk
> > will add about 25% more suction to the unit for the same RPM (therefore 
> > the
> > entire unit could be built smaller and lighter).
> >
> > Greg Manning,
> > Canadian Gasifier Ltd.
> > Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001
> >
> > Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
> > 1 (204) 726-1851
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of jim
> > mason
> > Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 4:58 PM
> > To: gasification at bioenergylists.org
> > Subject: [Gasification] tests to design a new cheap gasifier fan
> >
> >
> > we've been doing some work lately to design a new fan/blower that will
> > produce the needed vac and heat tolerance for gasifier operation. as
> > we all know, there is not an inexpensive source for such a thing from
> > other industries and applications. thus we had to build one for the
> > early gek kits.
> >
> > the original gek fan proved to not be strong enough once we finally
> > characterized the vac numbers that produce the flow/heat rates that
> > correspond to full tar conversion. the ejector/venturi solution we're
> > using currently produces plenty of vac and is very flexible, but
> > requires compressed air. this is not good for many off grid
> > situations. thus we still need a good fan/blower source. and one
> > that works on 12vdc, not an ac source.
> >
> > here's the info an pictures of our recent tests to produce this. we
> > are working towards a much simplified solution that also gets rid of
> > the welding to make it. this is based on the common car/truck fasco
> > type fan motor.
> >
> > http://gekgasifier.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455
> >
> > jim
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > Jim Mason
> > Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
> > Current Projects:
> > - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
> > - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: www.escapefromberkeley.com
> > - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
> > - Shipyard Announce list:
> > http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > 
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>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jim m Mason
> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
> Current Projects:
> - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
> - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: www.escapefromberkeley.com
> - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
> - Shipyard Announce list:
> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
> 
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