[Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production during pyrolysis?
Greg Manning
a31ford at gmail.com
Mon Aug 8 05:16:01 CDT 2011
Greetings List, Jim, Pannirselvam.
I now re-read your initial post, and wonder quoting you..
Quote: "we know we can do this by reducing
>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> with this?" < End Quote:
Reducing Pyrolysis Temperature ????? this is exactly where tars and
PAH's are created in the first place.
Sorry Jim, I'll back out of this conversation now, as we are in two
different worlds as to what makes a gasifier work correctly.
Greg Manning
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Pannirselvam P.V <pannirbr at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Jim
> Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification depends mostly on the
> temperture
> the temperture higher than 1000 C , can accelerate more the water gas
> shift reaction thus into more hydrogen and co2 , and alos the co2
> decomposition leading to more C0 ,shifting the equilibrium leading to the
> gas with less co2 . Thus steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is
> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production needing
> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
> in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , but
> steam reforming is critical.
> Low temperature pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium ,
> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam are important
> parameters.
> One of our research group project collaborator Dr.Rajessh has done ,
> not experimental study , but modeling simulation and optimization of these
> varibables as the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he also has
> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos doctrate
> research regarding several vital question you have made here .
> Even for us who make model , the role of steam in pyrolysis is not very
> clear.The steam , it products , c02 , can bring down very rapidly the
> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
> temperatures .
> In this respect , the two satge Denmak Viking gasifier has two stges
> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are very well demonstrated ,
> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure in
> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from gasifier.
> Surley there are experimental published work is available
> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
> Not only steam air ratio, but how this can be used are important points ,
> realy we do not have answer.
> if you wish to use steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated one
> , as superheated steam is well proved to be good for combustion , this can
> help cracking Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
> Experimental results are lacking but you can serach several patents,where
> you can surely find the correct answer.
> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search abou the
> same
>
> GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
> research to optimize , minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality gas ,
> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors are under
> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like viking
> well proven can make possible as practical small energy genertion with low
> investments
> As you have open mind and open source ecobusiness model , making
> money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven very soon , yet now
> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly
> feasible as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
> Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded sharing
> information of technical information with our list, I am happy to see You
> as an example and good model of other business venture bioenergy making
> private company to share not only the problems , but also share several
> important technical solution with open mind along with this list members,
> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one can keep awy from the
> list
> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real isseu and I am sure
> good way will be shown by several experts
> Yours truely
> Pannirselvam P.V
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>>
>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>
>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? my hunch is that
>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>> carbon bonded refractory tars. we know we can do this by reducing
>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> with this?
>>
>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>> combustion environments where there is high steam. steam apparently
>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. thus to the degree
>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>> reduction.
>>
>> but what about during pyrolysis? does it reduce PAH production? do
>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? in general,
>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>
>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>> pyrolysis. i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>
>> j
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jim Mason
>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>> Current Projects:
>> - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>> - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>> - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>> - Shipyard Announce list:
>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> ************************************************
> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
> Computer aided Cost engineering
>
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--
Regards,
Greg Manning,
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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