[Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 5

Kevin kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Tue Aug 9 15:38:37 PDT 2011


Dear Wayne
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wayne hipkin" <whipkin at gmail.com>
To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 5


can Canola  Straw be used as a feedstock??  Pelletized ??  OR  Thanks

# OK...there are at least two issues here: 1: Composition of the straw, and 
2:  Size.

# If it was like Switchgrass, with a lot of alkali that would cause slagging 
problems, then the Canola Straw would have fundamental issues.

# If you pelletized it, and used the pellets in a gasifier designed for 
chunkwood, then you would have problems unrelated to fuel composition. On 
the other hand, if you made the canola straw into briquettes similar to 
chunkwood size that worked in a Larosafier, then you might have an excellent 
chance of making good gas from Canola straw.

Best wishes,

Kevin

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:00 PM,
<gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Jason Stewart via LinkedIn)
> 2. Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Jason Stewart via LinkedIn)
> 3. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Greg Manning)
> 4. Re: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Tom Miles)
> 5. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 (Wayne hipkin)
> 6. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 (Wayne hipkin)
> 7. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 (Pannirselvam P.V)
> 8. Two piston ecomotor? (Pete & Sheri)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 20:56:32 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jason Stewart via LinkedIn <member at linkedin.com>
> To: Gerald Kutney <Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Gasification] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> Message-ID:
> <187722465.6159073.1312836992887.JavaMail.app at ela4-bed84.prod>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> LinkedIn
> ------------
>
>
>
>
> Jason Stewart requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Gerald,
>
> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>
> - Jason
>
> Accept invitation from Jason Stewart
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/3eliae-gr3x8yum-2g/I33rFw2Lcf_o8TGpORlm4ouVk3co_T2Vl0DmqG2VBlIVN3j/blk/I1589947178_3/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYPnPwTcjsQejAUdj59bT5aensMs4BObP0Qcj4Uc3oVdPcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/
>
> View invitation from Jason Stewart
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/3eliae-gr3x8yum-2g/I33rFw2Lcf_o8TGpORlm4ouVk3co_T2Vl0DmqG2VBlIVN3j/blk/I1589947178_3/3dve3sNdPgVejwRckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/
>
>
> --
> (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 20:56:37 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jason Stewart via LinkedIn <member at linkedin.com>
> To: Sribas Chandra Bhattacharya
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Gasification] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> Message-ID:
> <717439785.6044389.1312836997413.JavaMail.app at ela4-app0133..prod>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> LinkedIn
> ------------
>
>
>
>
> Jason Stewart requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Sribas Chandra,
>
> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>
> - Jason
>
> Accept invitation from Jason Stewart
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-6sut75-gr3x92bq-6p/vP2HLfMHIqE7ddO08ckwjRxmNB9VdP2MggkHh00mwqEplduYDMu6WC8/blk/I3018979338_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPwPcPATejwNc3d9bPdUkl9JqyR7bPsTdj4Uc3oVdPcLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/
>
> View invitation from Jason Stewart
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-6sut75-gr3x92bq-6p/vP2HLfMHIqE7ddO08ckwjRxmNB9VdP2MggkHh00mwqEplduYDMu6WC8/blk/I3018979338_2/39ve3cPejsVe34McQALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/
> ------------------------------------------
>
> DID YOU KNOW that LinkedIn can find the answers to your most difficult 
> questions? Post those vexing questions on LinkedIn Answers to tap into the 
> knowledge of the world's foremost business experts:
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-6sut75-gr3x92bq-6p/ask/inv-23/
>
> --
> (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 19:00:24 -0500
> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
> To: Jason Stewart <urepedese at gmail.com>, Discussion of biomass
> pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> Message-ID:
> <CAH4eSNoF8A1AJdD+-LGJEsVp5AvpjgORxzxPgXT9rJmFSgOeEA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Jason,
>
> I would assume that your e-mail account has been "hacked" as these are
> private posts that are getting to the list,
>
> Tom, or Erin,
>
> Can you look into the sending address on these 2 emails from Jason please,
> I've snipped the body out, as to not perpetuate the beast.
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Jason Stewart via LinkedIn <
> member at linkedin.com> wrote:
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 18:44:07 -0700
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "'Jason Stewart'"
> <urepedese at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
> Message-ID: <00d201cc5635$d4a48930$7ded9b90$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for catching those. We've removed and banned the sending address 
> from
> the list for the time being. We'll get Jason back, probably with a new
> address.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> Manning
> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 5:00 PM
> To: Jason Stewart; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
>
>
> I would assume that your e-mail account has been "hacked" as these are
> private posts that are getting to the list,
>
>
>
> Tom, or Erin,
>
>
>
> Can you look into the sending address on these 2 emails from Jason please,
> I've snipped the body out, as to not perpetuate the beast.
>
>
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Jason Stewart via LinkedIn
> <member at linkedin.com> wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenerg
> ylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:12:54 -0700
> From: Wayne hipkin <whipkin at gmail.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4
> Message-ID:
> <CACgYh9hskLD52j+iqL7cg2-QJyifkR13Vurugvk6eoFPOAFnvw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Recent two piston ecomotors ?are under
>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like 
>> viking
>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with 
>> low
>> investments HI Can I study this more indepth The two piston ecomoters?? 
>> Thanks guys Wayne
>
> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:04 AM,
> <gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> ? ? ? ?gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> ? ? ? 
>> ?http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> ? ? ? ?gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> ? ? ? ?gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> ? 1. effect of steam on tar and soot production during pyrolysis?
>> ? ? ?(jim mason)
>> ? 2. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production ? ?during
>> ? ? ?pyrolysis? (Greg Manning)
>> ? 3. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production ? ?during
>> ? ? ?pyrolysis? (Pannirselvam ?P.V)
>> ? 4. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production ? ?during
>> ? ? ?pyrolysis? (Greg Manning)
>> ? 5. Sheet metal design and prototyping (Thomas Reed)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:05:15 -0700
>> From: jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org>
>> To: gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> ? ? ? ?during ?pyrolysis?
>> Message-ID:
>> ? ? ? 
>> ?<CAB5Uy2z8D2YEkXQdQZ=q9Us9genNizYz4_4Uj2_-m8AS-Hi1nA at mail.gmail..com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>
>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> with this?
>>
>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>> reduction.
>>
>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>
>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>
>> j
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jim Mason
>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>> Current Projects:
>> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: 
>> www.escapefromberkeley..com
>> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>> ?? - Shipyard Announce list:
>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:46:17 -0500
>> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> ? ? ? ?during pyrolysis?
>> Message-ID:
>> ? ? ? 
>> ?<CAH4eSNqZWF0pRcSiaC8rf75BafSYgQaCc6DCSN9KrSOSxMzHSA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Greetings List.
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> ?There are many ways to improve all "sections" (used loosely) within a
>> downdraft gasifier, ?however IMO, steam in biomass is NOT one of them,
>> Coal on the otherhand is the opposite.
>>
>> Attempting to control the reaction temperature should only be done
>> within the design of the gasifier, for it's intended feedstock, any
>> other methods, simply put..... fail.
>>
>> Design is paramount, get it right in the first place (aliken to the
>> foundation of a house) once the design is right, everything else runs
>> correct (level plumb and true).
>>
>> Greg Manning
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 9:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:35:08 -0300
>> From: "Pannirselvam ?P.V" <pannirbr at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: Mark Nickelo Blanco <mark.nickelo.blanco at gmail.com>, ? ? ? ?Rajesh sk
>> ? ? ? ?<rajeshsk76 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> ? ? ? ?during pyrolysis?
>> Message-ID:
>> ? ? ? 
>> ?<CADw81mdUkx93Zg9yLf88YDrDPdJDfSB9B0jdD05u0BkwQznOGw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> ?Dear Jim
>>
>> ? Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification ?depends mostly ?on the
>> temperture
>> the ?temperture higher than ?1000 C , can ? accelerate ?more the ?water 
>> gas
>> ?shift reaction thus ?into more ? hydrogen and co2 , and alos the ?co2
>> ?decomposition ?leading to more C0 ,shifting ?the equilibrium leading to 
>> the
>> gas with ?less co2 . Thus ?steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is
>> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production needing
>> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
>>
>> ?in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , but
>> steam reforming ?is critical.
>>
>> Low ?temperature ?pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium 
>> ,
>> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam ?are important
>> parameters.
>>
>> ?One of our ?research group ?project collaborator ?Dr.Rajessh ?has done ,
>> not experimental ?study , but modeling simulation and optimization of 
>> ?these
>> varibables as ?the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he also 
>> has
>> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos 
>> doctrate
>> research ?regarding several ?vital question you have ?made here .
>>
>> ?Even for us ?who make model ?, the role of steam in pyrolysis is not 
>> ?very
>> clear.The steam , it products , c02 ?, can bring down very ?rapidly the
>> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
>> temperatures .
>>
>> ? ?In this respect , the two satge ?Denmak ?Viking ?gasifier ?has two 
>> stges
>> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are ?very ?well demonstrated 
>> ?,
>> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure ?in
>> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from gasifier.
>> Surley there are ?experimental ?published work ?is available
>> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
>>
>> Not only steam air ?ratio, but ?how ?this can be used are important 
>> points ,
>> realy ?we do not have ?answer.
>>
>> if you wish to use ?steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated 
>> one
>> , as superheated ?steam is well proved to be ?good for combustion , this 
>> can
>> help cracking ?Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
>>
>> Experimental results ?are lacking but you can serach several 
>> patents,where
>> you ?can surely find the correct answer.
>>
>> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search ?abou 
>> the
>> same
>>
>>
>> ?GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
>> research ?to optimize ?, minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality gas 
>> ,
>> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors ?are under
>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like 
>> viking
>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with 
>> low
>> investments
>>
>> ? ? ? As you have ?open mind ?and open source ?ecobusiness model , making
>> ?money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven ?very soon , yet 
>> ?now
>> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly
>> feasible ?as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
>>
>> ? Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded ?sharing
>> information ?of technical information ?with our list, I am happy ?to see 
>> You
>> as an example and good model of other business ?venture bioenergy making
>> ?private ?company ?to share not only the problems , but also ?share 
>> ?several
>> important technical solution ?with open mind along with this ?list 
>> members,
>> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one ?can keep awy from the
>> list
>>
>> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real isseu and I ?am sure
>> ?good way ?will be shown by several experts
>>
>> Yours truely
>> Pannirselvam P.V
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>>
>>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>> with this?
>>>
>>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>>> reduction.
>>>
>>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>>
>>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>>
>>> j
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jim Mason
>>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>>> Current Projects:
>>> ? ?- Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>>> ? ?- Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>>> ? ?- ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>>> ? ?- Shipyard Announce list:
>>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ************************************************
>> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
>> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
>> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
>> Computer aided ?Cost engineering
>>
>> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
>> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
>> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
>> North East,Brazil
>> *******************************************
>> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
>> ?and
>> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>>
>>
>> Fone ;Office
>> 84 3215-3769?, ?Ramal 210
>> Home : 84 3217-1557
>>
>> Mobile :558488145083
>>
>> Email:
>> pvpa at msn.com
>> panruti2002 at yahoo.com
>> pannirbr at gmail.com
>> pvpa at msn.com
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 05:16:01 -0500
>> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> ? ? ? ?during pyrolysis?
>> Message-ID:
>> ? ? ? 
>> ?<CAH4eSNrVNreHa+y6sSVqNVtiyFH0g=spwKoiD9u0TJa9Suw5ag at mail.gmail..com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>
>> Greetings List, Jim, Pannirselvam.
>>
>> I now re-read your initial post, and wonder quoting you..
>>
>> Quote: "we know we can do this by reducing
>>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>>> with this?" < End Quote:
>>
>> Reducing Pyrolysis Temperature ????? this is exactly where tars and
>> PAH's are created in the first place.
>>
>> Sorry Jim, I'll back out of this conversation now, as we are in two
>> different worlds as to what makes a gasifier work correctly.
>>
>> Greg Manning
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Pannirselvam ?P.V <pannirbr at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> ?Dear Jim
>>> ? ?Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification ?depends mostly ?on the
>>> temperture
>>> the ?temperture higher than ?1000 C , can ? accelerate ?more the ?water 
>>> gas
>>> ?shift reaction thus ?into more ? hydrogen and co2 , and alos the ?co2
>>> ?decomposition ?leading to more C0 ,shifting ?the equilibrium leading to 
>>> the
>>> gas with ?less co2 . Thus ?steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is
>>> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production needing
>>> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
>>> ? in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , 
>>> but
>>> steam reforming ?is critical.
>>> Low ?temperature ?pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium 
>>> ,
>>> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam ?are important
>>> parameters.
>>> ? One of our ?research group ?project collaborator ?Dr.Rajessh ?has done 
>>> ,
>>> not experimental ?study , but modeling simulation and optimization of 
>>> ?these
>>> varibables as ?the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he also 
>>> has
>>> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos 
>>> doctrate
>>> research ?regarding several ?vital question you have ?made here .
>>> ? Even for us ?who make model ?, the role of steam in pyrolysis is not 
>>> ?very
>>> clear.The steam , it products , c02 ?, can bring down very ?rapidly the
>>> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
>>> temperatures .
>>> ? ? In this respect , the two satge ?Denmak ?Viking ?gasifier ?has two 
>>> stges
>>> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are ?very ?well demonstrated 
>>> ?,
>>> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure ?in
>>> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from gasifier.
>>> Surley there are ?experimental ?published work ?is available
>>> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
>>> Not only steam air ?ratio, but ?how ?this can be used are important 
>>> points ,
>>> realy ?we do not have ?answer.
>>> if you wish to use ?steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated 
>>> one
>>> , as superheated ?steam is well proved to be ?good for combustion , this 
>>> can
>>> help cracking ?Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
>>> Experimental results ?are lacking but you can serach several 
>>> patents,where
>>> you ?can surely find the correct answer.
>>> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search ?abou 
>>> the
>>> same
>>>
>>> ? GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
>>> research ?to optimize ?, minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality 
>>> gas ,
>>> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors ?are 
>>> under
>>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like 
>>> viking
>>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with 
>>> low
>>> investments
>>> ? ? ? ?As you have ?open mind ?and open source ?ecobusiness model , 
>>> making
>>> ?money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven ?very soon , yet 
>>> ?now
>>> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly
>>> feasible ?as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
>>> ? ?Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded ?sharing
>>> information ?of technical information ?with our list, I am happy ?to see 
>>> You
>>> as an example and good model of other business ?venture bioenergy making
>>> ?private ?company ?to share not only the problems , but also ?share 
>>> ?several
>>> important technical solution ?with open mind along with this ?list 
>>> members,
>>> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one ?can keep awy from the
>>> list
>>> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real?isseu?and I ?am sure
>>> ?good way ?will be shown by several experts
>>> Yours truely
>>> Pannirselvam P.V
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>>>
>>>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>>>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>>>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>>>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>>> with this?
>>>>
>>>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>>>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>>>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>>>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>>>> reduction.
>>>>
>>>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>>>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>>>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>>>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>>>
>>>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>>>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>>>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>>>
>>>> j
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jim Mason
>>>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>>>> Current Projects:
>>>> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>>>> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>>>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>>>> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>>>> ?? - Shipyard Announce list:
>>>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ************************************************
>>> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
>>> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
>>> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
>>> Computer aided? Cost engineering
>>>
>>> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
>>> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
>>> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
>>> North East,Brazil
>>> *******************************************
>>> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
>>> ?and
>>> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Fone ;Office
>>> 84 3215-3769 ,? Ramal 210
>>> Home : 84 3217-1557
>>>
>>> Mobile :558488145083
>>>
>>> Email:
>>> pvpa at msn.com
>>> panruti2002 at yahoo.com
>>> pannirbr at gmail.com
>>> pvpa at msn.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ?Regards,
>>
>> Greg Manning,
>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:15:32 -0400
>> From: Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>> To: STOVES <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>, ? Discussion of
>> ? ? ? ?biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>, ? ? ? ?Shivayam Ellis
>> ? ? ? ?<shivayam.ellis at gmail.com>, Agua Das <aguadas at onebox.com>, ? ? 
>> ?Paul
>> ? ? ? ?Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>, William Ayres <waayres at kc.rr.com>,
>> ? ? ? ?Michael Antal <mantal at hawaii.edu>, Julia Hasty 
>> <jay at allpowerlabs.org>,
>> ? ? ? ?Art Krenzel <phoenix98604 at msn.com>, Art Lilley <artsolar at aol.com>
>> Subject: [Gasification] Sheet metal design and prototyping
>> Message-ID: <9415B8C5-2385-4340-96AE-641E8F210B27 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Dear all
>>
>> My exceedingly clever (God) Grandson, ?Shivayam Ellis (son of AguaDas 
>> Ellis) is starting a service at ?www.now cut.com to provide prototype 
>> sheet metal parts from his X-Y cutting table, described below.
>>
>> Hard to beat.
>>
>> TomReed - BEF
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: photo.PNG
>> Type: image/png
>> Size: 406036 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL: 
>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110807/8cab77e6/attachment.png>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Thomas B Reed
>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
>> www.Woodgas.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4
>> *******************************************
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:20:54 -0700
> From: Wayne hipkin <whipkin at gmail.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4
> Message-ID:
> <CACgYh9iJ-EMCQXP--NPM1Y0NrNOnCWtEFcSfxYA1ECLb2+=VkA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Has anyone try d Canola Or rape Straw As feedstock Pelletized Or??
> Appre Thanx A Question put to me by Alberta Canada Farmer
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Wayne hipkin <whipkin at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Recent two piston ecomotors ?are under
>>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like 
>>> viking
>>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with 
>>> low
>>> investments ?HI Can I study this more indepth The two piston ecomoters?? 
>>> ?Thanks guys Wayne
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:04 AM,
>> <gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
>>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>>> ? ? ? ?gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> ? ? ? 
>>> ?http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> ? ? ? ?gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> ? ? ? ?gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> ? 1. effect of steam on tar and soot production during pyrolysis?
>>> ? ? ?(jim mason)
>>> ? 2. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production ? ?during
>>> ? ? ?pyrolysis? (Greg Manning)
>>> ? 3. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production ? ?during
>>> ? ? ?pyrolysis? (Pannirselvam ?P.V)
>>> ? 4. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production ? ?during
>>> ? ? ?pyrolysis? (Greg Manning)
>>> ? 5. Sheet metal design and prototyping (Thomas Reed)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:05:15 -0700
>>> From: jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org>
>>> To: gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>> Subject: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>>> ? ? ? ?during ?pyrolysis?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> ? ? ? 
>>> ?<CAB5Uy2z8D2YEkXQdQZ=q9Us9genNizYz4_4Uj2_-m8AS-Hi1nA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>>
>>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>> with this?
>>>
>>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>>> reduction.
>>>
>>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>>
>>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>>
>>> j
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jim Mason
>>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>>> Current Projects:
>>> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>>> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: 
>>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>>> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>>> ?? - Shipyard Announce list:
>>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:46:17 -0500
>>> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>>> ? ? ? ?during pyrolysis?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> ? ? ? 
>>> ?<CAH4eSNqZWF0pRcSiaC8rf75BafSYgQaCc6DCSN9KrSOSxMzHSA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> Greetings List.
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> ?There are many ways to improve all "sections" (used loosely) within a
>>> downdraft gasifier, ?however IMO, steam in biomass is NOT one of them,
>>> Coal on the otherhand is the opposite.
>>>
>>> Attempting to control the reaction temperature should only be done
>>> within the design of the gasifier, for it's intended feedstock, any
>>> other methods, simply put..... fail.
>>>
>>> Design is paramount, get it right in the first place (aliken to the
>>> foundation of a house) once the design is right, everything else runs
>>> correct (level plumb and true).
>>>
>>> Greg Manning
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 9:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:35:08 -0300
>>> From: "Pannirselvam ?P.V" <pannirbr at gmail.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Cc: Mark Nickelo Blanco <mark.nickelo.blanco at gmail.com>, ? ? ? ?Rajesh 
>>> sk
>>> ? ? ? ?<rajeshsk76 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>>> ? ? ? ?during pyrolysis?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> ? ? ? 
>>> ?<CADw81mdUkx93Zg9yLf88YDrDPdJDfSB9B0jdD05u0BkwQznOGw at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>
>>> ?Dear Jim
>>>
>>> ? Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification ?depends mostly ?on the
>>> temperture
>>> the ?temperture higher than ?1000 C , can ? accelerate ?more the ?water 
>>> gas
>>> ?shift reaction thus ?into more ? hydrogen and co2 , and alos the ?co2
>>> ?decomposition ?leading to more C0 ,shifting ?the equilibrium leading to 
>>> the
>>> gas with ?less co2 . Thus ?steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is
>>> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production needing
>>> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
>>>
>>> ?in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , but
>>> steam reforming ?is critical.
>>>
>>> Low ?temperature ?pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium 
>>> ,
>>> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam ?are important
>>> parameters.
>>>
>>> ?One of our ?research group ?project collaborator ?Dr.Rajessh ?has done 
>>> ,
>>> not experimental ?study , but modeling simulation and optimization of 
>>> ?these
>>> varibables as ?the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he also 
>>> has
>>> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos 
>>> doctrate
>>> research ?regarding several ?vital question you have ?made here .
>>>
>>> ?Even for us ?who make model ?, the role of steam in pyrolysis is not 
>>> ?very
>>> clear.The steam , it products , c02 ?, can bring down very ?rapidly the
>>> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
>>> temperatures .
>>>
>>> ? ?In this respect , the two satge ?Denmak ?Viking ?gasifier ?has two 
>>> stges
>>> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are ?very ?well demonstrated 
>>> ?,
>>> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure ?in
>>> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from gasifier.
>>> Surley there are ?experimental ?published work ?is available
>>> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
>>>
>>> Not only steam air ?ratio, but ?how ?this can be used are important 
>>> points ,
>>> realy ?we do not have ?answer.
>>>
>>> if you wish to use ?steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated 
>>> one
>>> , as superheated ?steam is well proved to be ?good for combustion , this 
>>> can
>>> help cracking ?Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
>>>
>>> Experimental results ?are lacking but you can serach several 
>>> patents,where
>>> you ?can surely find the correct answer.
>>>
>>> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search ?abou 
>>> the
>>> same
>>>
>>>
>>> ?GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
>>> research ?to optimize ?, minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality 
>>> gas ,
>>> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors ?are 
>>> under
>>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like 
>>> viking
>>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with 
>>> low
>>> investments
>>>
>>> ? ? ? As you have ?open mind ?and open source ?ecobusiness model , 
>>> making
>>> ?money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven ?very soon , yet 
>>> ?now
>>> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly
>>> feasible ?as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
>>>
>>> ? Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded ?sharing
>>> information ?of technical information ?with our list, I am happy ?to see 
>>> You
>>> as an example and good model of other business ?venture bioenergy making
>>> ?private ?company ?to share not only the problems , but also ?share 
>>> ?several
>>> important technical solution ?with open mind along with this ?list 
>>> members,
>>> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one ?can keep awy from the
>>> list
>>>
>>> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real isseu and I ?am sure
>>> ?good way ?will be shown by several experts
>>>
>>> Yours truely
>>> Pannirselvam P.V
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>>>
>>>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>>>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>>>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>>>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>>> with this?
>>>>
>>>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>>>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>>>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>>>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>>>> reduction.
>>>>
>>>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>>>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>>>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>>>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>>>
>>>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>>>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>>>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>>>
>>>> j
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jim Mason
>>>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>>>> Current Projects:
>>>> ? ?- Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>>>> ? ?- Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>>>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>>>> ? ?- ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>>>> ? ?- Shipyard Announce list:
>>>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ************************************************
>>> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
>>> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
>>> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
>>> Computer aided ?Cost engineering
>>>
>>> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
>>> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
>>> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
>>> North East,Brazil
>>> *******************************************
>>> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
>>> ?and
>>> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Fone ;Office
>>> 84 3215-3769?, ?Ramal 210
>>> Home : 84 3217-1557
>>>
>>> Mobile :558488145083
>>>
>>> Email:
>>> pvpa at msn.com
>>> panruti2002 at yahoo.com
>>> pannirbr at gmail.com
>>> pvpa at msn.com
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: 
>>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110808/f79e905c/attachment-0001.html>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 05:16:01 -0500
>>> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>>> ? ? ? ?during pyrolysis?
>>> Message-ID:
>>> ? ? ? 
>>> ?<CAH4eSNrVNreHa+y6sSVqNVtiyFH0g=spwKoiD9u0TJa9Suw5ag at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>>
>>> Greetings List, Jim, Pannirselvam.
>>>
>>> I now re-read your initial post, and wonder quoting you..
>>>
>>> Quote: "we know we can do this by reducing
>>>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>>>> with this?" < End Quote:
>>>
>>> Reducing Pyrolysis Temperature ????? this is exactly where tars and
>>> PAH's are created in the first place.
>>>
>>> Sorry Jim, I'll back out of this conversation now, as we are in two
>>> different worlds as to what makes a gasifier work correctly.
>>>
>>> Greg Manning
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Pannirselvam ?P.V <pannirbr at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> ?Dear Jim
>>>> ? ?Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification ?depends mostly ?on the
>>>> temperture
>>>> the ?temperture higher than ?1000 C , can ? accelerate ?more the ?water 
>>>> gas
>>>> ?shift reaction thus ?into more ? hydrogen and co2 , and alos the ?co2
>>>> ?decomposition ?leading to more C0 ,shifting ?the equilibrium leading 
>>>> to the
>>>> gas with ?less co2 . Thus ?steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is
>>>> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production 
>>>> needing
>>>> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
>>>> ? in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , 
>>>> but
>>>> steam reforming ?is critical.
>>>> Low ?temperature ?pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus 
>>>> optium ,
>>>> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam ?are important
>>>> parameters.
>>>> ? One of our ?research group ?project collaborator ?Dr.Rajessh ?has 
>>>> done ,
>>>> not experimental ?study , but modeling simulation and optimization of 
>>>> ?these
>>>> varibables as ?the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he also 
>>>> has
>>>> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos 
>>>> doctrate
>>>> research ?regarding several ?vital question you have ?made here .
>>>> ? Even for us ?who make model ?, the role of steam in pyrolysis is not 
>>>> ?very
>>>> clear.The steam , it products , c02 ?, can bring down very ?rapidly the
>>>> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
>>>> temperatures .
>>>> ? ? In this respect , the two satge ?Denmak ?Viking ?gasifier ?has two 
>>>> stges
>>>> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are ?very ?well 
>>>> demonstrated ?,
>>>> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure ?in
>>>> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from 
>>>> gasifier.
>>>> Surley there are ?experimental ?published work ?is available
>>>> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
>>>> Not only steam air ?ratio, but ?how ?this can be used are important 
>>>> points ,
>>>> realy ?we do not have ?answer.
>>>> if you wish to use ?steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the 
>>>> superheated one
>>>> , as superheated ?steam is well proved to be ?good for combustion , 
>>>> this can
>>>> help cracking ?Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
>>>> Experimental results ?are lacking but you can serach several 
>>>> patents,where
>>>> you ?can surely find the correct answer.
>>>> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search ?abou 
>>>> the
>>>> same
>>>>
>>>> ? GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
>>>> research ?to optimize ?, minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality 
>>>> gas ,
>>>> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors ?are 
>>>> under
>>>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like 
>>>> viking
>>>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with 
>>>> low
>>>> investments
>>>> ? ? ? ?As you have ?open mind ?and open source ?ecobusiness model , 
>>>> making
>>>> ?money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven ?very soon , yet 
>>>> ?now
>>>> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly
>>>> feasible ?as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
>>>> ? ?Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded ?sharing
>>>> information ?of technical information ?with our list, I am happy ?to 
>>>> see You
>>>> as an example and good model of other business ?venture bioenergy 
>>>> making
>>>> ?private ?company ?to share not only the problems , but also ?share 
>>>> ?several
>>>> important technical solution ?with open mind along with this ?list 
>>>> members,
>>>> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one ?can keep awy from 
>>>> the
>>>> list
>>>> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real?isseu?and I ?am 
>>>> sure
>>>> ?good way ?will be shown by several experts
>>>> Yours truely
>>>> Pannirselvam P.V
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>>>>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>>>>>
>>>>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>>>>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>>>>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>>>>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>>>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>>>>> with this?
>>>>>
>>>>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>>>>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>>>>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>>>>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>>>>> reduction.
>>>>>
>>>>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>>>>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>>>>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>>>>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>>>>>
>>>>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>>>>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>>>>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>>>>>
>>>>> j
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Jim Mason
>>>>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>>>>> Current Projects:
>>>>> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>>>>> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>>>>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>>>>> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>>>>> ?? - Shipyard Announce list:
>>>>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ************************************************
>>>> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
>>>> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
>>>> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
>>>> Computer aided? Cost engineering
>>>>
>>>> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
>>>> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
>>>> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
>>>> North East,Brazil
>>>> *******************************************
>>>> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
>>>> ?and
>>>> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fone ;Office
>>>> 84 3215-3769 ,? Ramal 210
>>>> Home : 84 3217-1557
>>>>
>>>> Mobile :558488145083
>>>>
>>>> Email:
>>>> pvpa at msn.com
>>>> panruti2002 at yahoo.com
>>>> pannirbr at gmail.com
>>>> pvpa at msn.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ?Regards,
>>>
>>> Greg Manning,
>>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:15:32 -0400
>>> From: Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>>> To: STOVES <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>, ? Discussion of
>>> ? ? ? ?biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> ? ? ? ?<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>, ? ? ? ?Shivayam Ellis
>>> ? ? ? ?<shivayam.ellis at gmail.com>, Agua Das <aguadas at onebox.com>, ? ? 
>>> ?Paul
>>> ? ? ? ?Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>, William Ayres <waayres at kc.rr.com>,
>>> ? ? ? ?Michael Antal <mantal at hawaii.edu>, Julia Hasty 
>>> <jay at allpowerlabs..org>,
>>> ? ? ? ?Art Krenzel <phoenix98604 at msn.com>, Art Lilley <artsolar at aol.com>
>>> Subject: [Gasification] Sheet metal design and prototyping
>>> Message-ID: <9415B8C5-2385-4340-96AE-641E8F210B27 at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>
>>> My exceedingly clever (God) Grandson, ?Shivayam Ellis (son of AguaDas 
>>> Ellis) is starting a service at ?www.now cut.com to provide prototype 
>>> sheet metal parts from his X-Y cutting table, described below.
>>>
>>> Hard to beat.
>>>
>>> TomReed - BEF
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: photo.PNG
>>> Type: image/png
>>> Size: 406036 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> URL: 
>>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110807/8cab77e6/attachment.png>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
>>> www.Woodgas.com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4
>>> *******************************************
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 14:41:59 -0300
> From: "Pannirselvam P.V" <pannirbr at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4
> Message-ID:
> <CADw81mcKM4PvWwJ7C7XCFYs2NMGXjw0sSMazp2UB0_+rtshvhg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi wayne
>
> As all the hardware are low investments , the only important part
> is humanware , some pliots study , workshop so that GEK and eco motor
> people can promote in several places .
>
> There is an urgent need to have simutaneous Engineering Expert group this
> work use google plus online realtime collaborative learning using you tube
> videos , make possible by comned plan , design, construct , operate and
> optimize participating all the fases
>
> This list has human experts to make this posible
> yours truely
> Pannirselvam
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Wayne hipkin <whipkin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Recent two piston ecomotors ?are under
>> > fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like
>> viking
>> > well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with
>> low
>> > investments HI Can I study this more indepth The two piston ecomoters??
>> Thanks guys Wayne
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:04 AM,
>> <gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
>> > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> > gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. effect of steam on tar and soot production during pyrolysis?
>> > (jim mason)
>> > 2. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production during
>> > pyrolysis? (Greg Manning)
>> > 3. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production during
>> > pyrolysis? (Pannirselvam P.V)
>> > 4. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production during
>> > pyrolysis? (Greg Manning)
>> > 5. Sheet metal design and prototyping (Thomas Reed)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:05:15 -0700
>> > From: jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org>
>> > To: gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> > Subject: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> > during pyrolysis?
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <CAB5Uy2z8D2YEkXQdQZ=
>> q9Us9genNizYz4_4Uj2_-m8AS-Hi1nA at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>> > issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>> >
>> > does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>> > of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? my hunch is that
>> > increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>> > carbon bonded refractory tars. we know we can do this by reducing
>> > pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> > with this?
>> >
>> > the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>> > combustion environments where there is high steam. steam apparently
>> > interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. thus to the degree
>> > we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>> > reduction.
>> >
>> > but what about during pyrolysis? does it reduce PAH production? do
>> > it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? in general,
>> > are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>> > meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>> >
>> > i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>> > pyrolysis. i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>> > improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>> >
>> > j
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Jim Mason
>> > Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>> > Current Projects:
>> > ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>> > ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>> > ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>> > ?? - Shipyard Announce list:
>> > http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:46:17 -0500
>> > From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> > <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> > during pyrolysis?
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <
>> CAH4eSNqZWF0pRcSiaC8rf75BafSYgQaCc6DCSN9KrSOSxMzHSA at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > Greetings List.
>> >
>> > Jim,
>> >
>> > There are many ways to improve all "sections" (used loosely) within a
>> > downdraft gasifier, however IMO, steam in biomass is NOT one of them,
>> > Coal on the otherhand is the opposite.
>> >
>> > Attempting to control the reaction temperature should only be done
>> > within the design of the gasifier, for it's intended feedstock, any
>> > other methods, simply put..... fail.
>> >
>> > Design is paramount, get it right in the first place (aliken to the
>> > foundation of a house) once the design is right, everything else runs
>> > correct (level plumb and true).
>> >
>> > Greg Manning
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 9:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> wrote:
>> >> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 3
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:35:08 -0300
>> > From: "Pannirselvam P.V" <pannirbr at gmail.com>
>> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> > <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > Cc: Mark Nickelo Blanco <mark.nickelo.blanco at gmail.com>, Rajesh
>> sk
>> > <rajeshsk76 at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> > during pyrolysis?
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <
>> CADw81mdUkx93Zg9yLf88YDrDPdJDfSB9B0jdD05u0BkwQznOGw at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> >
>> > Dear Jim
>> >
>> > Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification depends mostly on the
>> > temperture
>> > the temperture higher than 1000 C , can accelerate more the water
>> gas
>> > shift reaction thus into more hydrogen and co2 , and alos the co2
>> > decomposition leading to more C0 ,shifting the equilibrium leading to
>> the
>> > gas with less co2 . Thus steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is
>> > favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production 
>> > needing
>> > less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
>> >
>> > in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , but
>> > steam reforming is critical.
>> >
>> > Low temperature pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium
>> ,
>> > not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam are important
>> > parameters.
>> >
>> > One of our research group project collaborator Dr.Rajessh has done ,
>> > not experimental study , but modeling simulation and optimization of
>> these
>> > varibables as the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he also
>> has
>> > more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos
>> doctrate
>> > research regarding several vital question you have made here .
>> >
>> > Even for us who make model , the role of steam in pyrolysis is not
>> very
>> > clear.The steam , it products , c02 , can bring down very rapidly the
>> > pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
>> > temperatures .
>> >
>> > In this respect , the two satge Denmak Viking gasifier has two
>> stges
>> > :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are very well demonstrated
>> ,
>> > in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure in
>> > pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from 
>> > gasifier.
>> > Surley there are experimental published work is available
>> > http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
>> >
>> > Not only steam air ratio, but how this can be used are important
>> points ,
>> > realy we do not have answer.
>> >
>> > if you wish to use steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated
>> one
>> > , as superheated steam is well proved to be good for combustion , this
>> can
>> > help cracking Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
>> >
>> > Experimental results are lacking but you can serach several
>> patents,where
>> > you can surely find the correct answer.
>> >
>> > Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search abou
>> the
>> > same
>> >
>> >
>> > GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
>> > research to optimize , minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality gas
>> ,
>> > improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors are 
>> > under
>> > fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like
>> viking
>> > well proven can make possible as practical small energy genertion with
>> low
>> > investments
>> >
>> > As you have open mind and open source ecobusiness model , making
>> > money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven very soon , yet
>> now
>> > is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly
>> > feasible as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
>> >
>> > Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded sharing
>> > information of technical information with our list, I am happy to see
>> You
>> > as an example and good model of other business venture bioenergy making
>> > private company to share not only the problems , but also share
>> several
>> > important technical solution with open mind along with this list
>> members,
>> > eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one can keep awy from the
>> > list
>> >
>> > Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real isseu and I am sure
>> > good way will be shown by several experts
>> >
>> > Yours truely
>> > Pannirselvam P.V
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org> 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>> >> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>> >>
>> >> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts
>> >> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? my hunch is that
>> >> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>> >> carbon bonded refractory tars. we know we can do this by reducing
>> >> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> >> with this?
>> >>
>> >> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>> >> combustion environments where there is high steam. steam apparently
>> >> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. thus to the degree
>> >> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>> >> reduction.
>> >>
>> >> but what about during pyrolysis? does it reduce PAH production? do
>> >> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? in general,
>> >> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>> >> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>> >>
>> >> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>> >> pyrolysis. i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>> >> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>> >>
>> >> j
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Jim Mason
>> >> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>> >> Current Projects:
>> >> - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier..com
>> >> - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>> >> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>> >> - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>> >> - Shipyard Announce list:
>> >> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gasification mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ************************************************
>> > P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
>> > ASSOCIATE . PROF.
>> > Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
>> > Computer aided Cost engineering
>> >
>> > DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
>> > CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
>> > Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
>> > North East,Brazil
>> > *******************************************
>> > https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
>> > and
>> > http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>> >
>> >
>> > Fone ;Office
>> > 84 3215-3769 , Ramal 210
>> > Home : 84 3217-1557
>> >
>> > Mobile :558488145083
>> >
>> > Email:
>> > pvpa at msn.com
>> > panruti2002 at yahoo.com
>> > pannirbr at gmail.com
>> > pvpa at msn.com
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > URL: <
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110808/f79e905c/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 4
>> > Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 05:16:01 -0500
>> > From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> > <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production
>> > during pyrolysis?
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <CAH4eSNrVNreHa+y6sSVqNVtiyFH0g=
>> spwKoiD9u0TJa9Suw5ag at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> >
>> > Greetings List, Jim, Pannirselvam.
>> >
>> > I now re-read your initial post, and wonder quoting you..
>> >
>> > Quote: "we know we can do this by reducing
>> >>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> >>> with this?" < End Quote:
>> >
>> > Reducing Pyrolysis Temperature ????? this is exactly where tars and
>> > PAH's are created in the first place.
>> >
>> > Sorry Jim, I'll back out of this conversation now, as we are in two
>> > different worlds as to what makes a gasifier work correctly.
>> >
>> > Greg Manning
>> >
>> > On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Pannirselvam P.V <pannirbr at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> ?Dear Jim
>> >> ? ?Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification ?depends mostly ?on the
>> >> temperture
>> >> the ?temperture higher than ?1000 C , can ? accelerate ?more the 
>> >> ?water
>> gas
>> >> ?shift reaction thus ?into more ? hydrogen and co2 , and alos the ?co2
>> >> ?decomposition ?leading to more C0 ,shifting ?the equilibrium leading 
>> >> to
>> the
>> >> gas with ?less co2 . Thus ?steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas 
>> >> is
>> >> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production 
>> >> needing
>> >> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output
>> >> ? in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor ,
>> but
>> >> steam reforming ?is critical.
>> >> Low ?temperature ?pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus 
>> >> optium
>> ,
>> >> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam ?are important
>> >> parameters.
>> >> ? One of our ?research group ?project collaborator ?Dr.Rajessh ?has 
>> >> done
>> ,
>> >> not experimental ?study , but modeling simulation and optimization of
>> ?these
>> >> varibables as ?the Phd thesis .His email .is rajesh76 at gmail.com.he 
>> >> also
>> has
>> >> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos
>> doctrate
>> >> research ?regarding several ?vital question you have ?made here .
>> >> ? Even for us ?who make model ?, the role of steam in pyrolysis is not
>> ?very
>> >> clear.The steam , it products , c02 ?, can bring down very ?rapidly 
>> >> the
>> >> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady
>> >> temperatures .
>> >> ? ? In this respect , the two satge ?Denmak ?Viking ?gasifier ?has two
>> stges
>> >> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are ?very ?well 
>> >> demonstrated
>> ?,
>> >> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure ?in
>> >> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from 
>> >> gasifier.
>> >> Surley there are ?experimental ?published work ?is available
>> >> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot
>> >> Not only steam air ?ratio, but ?how ?this can be used are important
>> points ,
>> >> realy ?we do not have ?answer.
>> >> if you wish to use ?steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the 
>> >> superheated
>> one
>> >> , as superheated ?steam is well proved to be ?good for combustion , 
>> >> this
>> can
>> >> help cracking ?Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc.
>> >> Experimental results ?are lacking but you can serach several
>> patents,where
>> >> you ?can surely find the correct answer.
>> >> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search 
>> >> ?abou
>> the
>> >> same
>> >>
>> >> ? GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional
>> >> research ?to optimize ?, minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality
>> gas ,
>> >> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors ?are
>> under
>> >> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like
>> viking
>> >> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion 
>> >> with
>> low
>> >> investments
>> >> ? ? ? ?As you have ?open mind ?and open source ?ecobusiness model ,
>> making
>> >> ?money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven ?very soon , yet
>> ?now
>> >> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but 
>> >> technicaly
>> >> feasible ?as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated
>> >> ? ?Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded ?sharing
>> >> information ?of technical information ?with our list, I am happy ?to 
>> >> see
>> You
>> >> as an example and good model of other business ?venture bioenergy 
>> >> making
>> >> ?private ?company ?to share not only the problems , but also ?share
>> ?several
>> >> important technical solution ?with open mind along with this ?list
>> members,
>> >> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one ?can keep awy from 
>> >> the
>> >> list
>> >> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real?isseu?and I ?am 
>> >> sure
>> >> ?good way ?will be shown by several experts
>> >> Yours truely
>> >> Pannirselvam P.V
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <jim at allpowerlabs.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less
>> >>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question.
>> >>>
>> >>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the 
>> >>> impacts
>> >>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that
>> >>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double
>> >>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing
>> >>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help
>> >>> with this?
>> >>>
>> >>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in
>> >>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently
>> >>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree
>> >>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot
>> >>> reduction.
>> >>>
>> >>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do
>> >>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general,
>> >>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things
>> >>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream?
>> >>>
>> >>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during
>> >>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue
>> >>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage.
>> >>>
>> >>> j
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Jim Mason
>> >>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
>> >>> Current Projects:
>> >>> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
>> >>> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race:
>> >>> www.escapefromberkeley.com
>> >>> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
>> >>> ?? - Shipyard Announce list:
>> >>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Gasification mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>> >>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ************************************************
>> >> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
>> >> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
>> >> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
>> >> Computer aided? Cost engineering
>> >>
>> >> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
>> >> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
>> >> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
>> >> North East,Brazil
>> >> *******************************************
>> >> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
>> >> ?and
>> >> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Fone ;Office
>> >> 84 3215-3769 ,? Ramal 210
>> >> Home : 84 3217-1557
>> >>
>> >> Mobile :558488145083
>> >>
>> >> Email:
>> >> pvpa at msn.com
>> >> panruti2002 at yahoo.com
>> >> pannirbr at gmail.com
>> >> pvpa at msn.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gasification mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site:
>> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ?Regards,
>> >
>> > Greg Manning,
>> > Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 5
>> > Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:15:32 -0400
>> > From: Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>> > To: STOVES <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Discussion of
>> > biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> > <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Shivayam Ellis
>> > <shivayam.ellis at gmail.com>, Agua Das <aguadas at onebox.com>,
>> Paul
>> > Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>, William Ayres <waayres at kc.rr.com>,
>> > Michael Antal <mantal at hawaii.edu>, Julia Hasty <
>> jay at allpowerlabs.org>,
>> > Art Krenzel <phoenix98604 at msn.com>, Art Lilley <artsolar at aol.com>
>> > Subject: [Gasification] Sheet metal design and prototyping
>> > Message-ID: <9415B8C5-2385-4340-96AE-641E8F210B27 at gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> > Dear all
>> >
>> > My exceedingly clever (God) Grandson, Shivayam Ellis (son of AguaDas
>> Ellis) is starting a service at www.now cut.com to provide prototype
>> sheet metal parts from his X-Y cutting table, described below.
>> >
>> > Hard to beat.
>> >
>> > TomReed - BEF
>> >
>> > -------------- next part --------------
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>> > Type: image/png
>> > Size: 406036 bytes
>> > Desc: not available
>> > URL: <
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110807/8cab77e6/attachment.png
>> >
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dr Thomas B Reed
>> > President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
>> > www.Woodgas.com
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Gasification mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > End of Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4
>> > *******************************************
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
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>>
>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ************************************************
> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
> Computer aided Cost engineering
>
> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica
> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN
> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970
> North East,Brazil
> *******************************************
> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/
> and
> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/
>
>
> Fone ;Office
> 84 3215-3769 , Ramal 210
> Home : 84 3217-1557
>
> Mobile :558488145083
>
> Email:
> pvpa at msn.com
> panruti2002 at yahoo.com
> pannirbr at gmail.com
> pvpa at msn.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110809/2d3b4159/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 13:09:58 -0500
> From: "Pete & Sheri" <spaco at baldwin-telecom.net>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Gasification] Two piston ecomotor?
> Message-ID: <001a01cc56bf$8d2a8ca0$a77fa5e0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> What is a two piston ecomotor?
>
>
>
> Pete Stanaitis
>
> -------------------
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110809/4e86a7c3/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 5
> *******************************************
>

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