[Gasification] TLUD BEST

Mon Dec 19 12:43:31 CST 2011

Dear Otto and all

I use a Cen-Tech  Infra Red pyrometer to measure the temperature of hot surfaces.  (Harbor Freight, $15-40).  TLUD gasifiers burning the 80% cellulose fraction with secondary air and leaving the charcoal for other purposes don't get over 200 C when in the pyrolysis mode.  However, when the yellow cellulose flame dies down and the stove is full of charcoal, the temperature of the stove surface shoots up to 350, more with forced air.  

Das's rule for pipe temperatures is that the outer surface of the pipe will be halfway between the temperature of the fluid in the pipe and room temperature.  So a bare pipe carrying steam at 100c  would be ((100-20)/2+20) = 60C.  

Onward 

Tom Reed

Dr Thomas B Reed 
The Biomass Energy Foundation
www.Woodgas.com

On Dec 17, 2011, at 4:08 PM, Otto Formo <formo-o at online.no> wrote:

> Tom and all,
> 
> Iam very happy to see your statment about beeing Carbon negative................
> "Unless you cook or generate electricity with the heat, in which case you are doubly CO2 negative by replacing propane or other fossil fuel for cooking"!
> 
> But Iam a bit suprised to find you so "relaxed" about the the black carbon, when the gasifiers are used for household cooking!?
> 
> I knew Napolon was stupid, but not as stupid to burn down the forest for weapons or charcoal, if you like, unless you utilize the energy for cooking or heating .......some people never learn or want to learn.
> 
> Have a nice and clean burning gasifier in the New Year to come.
> 
> Otto
> 
>> From: Thomas Reed [tombreed2010 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: 2011-12-17 17:45:05 MET
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification [gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org], Paul Anderson [psanders at ilstu.edu], Hugh McLaughlin [hmcLaughlin at alternabiocarbon.com], Kathy Nafie [kathynafie at yahoo.com]
>> Cc: knothj at uw.edu
>> Subject: [Gasification] TLUD BEST
>> 
>> Tom Miles and all
>> 
>> First let me reiterate the warning that TLUD charcoal making is not CO2 negative unless you have also a use for the heat GENERATED in the pyrolysis gas fire.  Wood is 50% carbon, and if you get a 20% yield of charcoal, you have put 30% back in the air as CO2 sooner than if the wood rotted.  So 1 ton of wood gave 400 lb of charcoal and (1600x44/12) 5.87 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere.
>> 
>> Unless you cook or generate electricity with the heat, in which case you are doubly CO2 negative by replacing propane or other fossil fuel for cooking!
>> <><><>
>> 
>> I like the idea of the blanket, but not the $1500 it would cost and the time it would take to develop.    How about TURF.
>> 
>> Classic charcoal at the time of Napoleon ( he burned down the forests to make cannons) involved stacking many cords of wood around a central chimney made of poles and covering it with turf, leaving a smoke hole at the top.  Small air entries were made at the base and fires lit.  For quite a while the smoke was white as water vapor was expelled amd the wood dried.  Then the smoke turned yellow, as pyrolysis began, and finally blue when the charcoal was burning.  Then seal the bottom up tight and wait another few days for it to cool.  Strip off the turf and you have a beautiful pile of charcoal.  
>> 
>> I have been tempted to replicate the above method on a small scale in my back yard next  April when we are allowed to burn.  But I would substitute TOP LIGHTING with burning off of the pyrolysis gases as they are formed and regulation of the burn rate by adjusting the air inlet holes.  Make a TURFTLUD.
>> 
>> I hope you will discuss this with your friends at UW.  I would even be willing to fly out for a meeting and maybe small tests if you have a secret burn spot.  
>> 
>> Onward to more charcoal with cleaner air.
>> 
>> Tom Reed,   Dr. PGas
>> 
>> Dr Thomas B Reed 
>> The Biomass Energy Foundation
>> www.Woodgas.com
>> 
>> On Dec 17, 2011, at 11:00 AM, "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Tom,
>>> 
>>> The pyromid looks like a good  in-woods approach to converting slash to biochar.
>>> 
>>> Do you think that the pyrolysis blanket that is being developed by Carbon Cultures (Jenny Knoth U Washington) can be used to improve the performance of the pyromid?
>>> 
>>> See video and story at:
>>> http://www.slideshare.net/sblank/carbon-cultures-corps-final
>>> http://www.igert.org/stories/90
>>> http://depts.washington.edu/bioenrgy/
>>> http://www.myscience.us/wire/turning_slash_piles_into_soil_benefit-2011-washington
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Tom Miles
>>> 
>>> From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Reed
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:43 AM
>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; STOVES
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>> 
>>> Dear gassers and Stovers
>>> 
>>> Using any size TLUD device including an open PYROMID, and any junk biomass, we all have easy access to as much charcoal as we could ever need, for the first time in history.
>>> 
>>> Furthermore, Hugh McLaughlin tells me that, while it's not true activated charcoal, made with steam or CO2 at 800C, it has significant absorption capacity (iodine no 400?) since it is made at 500-800 C.  I hope Hugh or Frank will comment.  
>>> 
>>> So we really have no excuse for cleaning up TLUD gas if we wish to.  
>>> 
>>> I'm waiting for a good analysis of TLUD gas.  I suspect after cleaning it will have significantly more energy than the typical 5.5 MJ/m3 or 150 Btu/ scf of downdraft Woodgas, since the air fuel ratio for pyrolysis is only 1-1.5, rather than the 3.5 for complete gasification of the cellulose lignin package that is wood.   So, as a first guess, with 1/3 the A/F ratio, I'm guessing 3x the energy content, of 4.5 MJ/m3 or 450 Btu/scf.  Compare to natural gas at 1000 Btu/ scf. 
>>> 
>>> I'd sure like to see some comments from all you practical guys (and dolls?) out there.  
>>> 
>>> Onward 
>>> 
>>> Tom Reed.   Dr WoodGas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dr Thomas B Reed 
>>> The Biomass Energy Foundation
>>> www.Woodgas.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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