[Gasification] Continuing

Thomas Reed tombreed2010 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 20 11:41:26 CDT 2011 

Dear P. V. and All

So many things are possible through thermal processes and so many through biological processes.   We don't have many examples of combining them, but PV has put a lot of the cards on the table below.  I hope someone will sort them out and make a road map of the possibilities.

TOM REED


Dr Thomas B Reed
President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
www.Woodgas.com

On Jul 20, 2011, at 11:53 AM, "Pannirselvam  P.V" <pannirbr at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Dea Dr T.Reed and Philip
> 
>      The  CO2  and  CO from   producer gas    can provide acetate, thus , there is  no  need for carbohyrates , this  low quality producer  gas can be  upgraded. The system  is more solid gas tricking filter bio reactor .
>   Dr Thomas  is correct   that  the mixed bacteria systems can   , at room temperature   solid liquid slurry in    know biodigster system  the reaction he wrote , but  let input of CH2O , more CO and CO2  , via adoptation  need to be done for  gas solid biodigestors 
> 
> 
>   Unlike conventional bio digestor, there is a need  to make the correct mixed bacteria  that can make  acetate (acids) from gas  , then  methane  is synthesised  by hydrogen bacteria via CO water shift  to hydrogen, which readily combine with  CO  to make  methane , as well as CO2.( At  atm pressure , low temperature ), wher as very high temp used to make co  shift via thermoconversion system 
> 
>  The problems with this new system , unlike conventional biodidestor, is  the bacter cell  growth  and viability   without carbohydrate (CH20) , unlike the system  which Dr.Reed has correctly wrotefor  the  biogas production where  ther is also parelel  auto catalytics bacteria reproducation .Philip Manske  here in his recent post has reported thatv the CO make bacterial cell gorwth and viabilit  possible .This  is very  positive  good results  .Biodigestor  bacterial  catatyst has the  problem of  useful active life time ,The  biocatalysts , microbes ,do not have unlimited  life time of activity .Need to be replaced .This is considered to be  negative point , but can be managed, with economic loss too 
> 
>    Instead of  separating  and upgrading  SNG  obtained   from low quality producer gas  via  bioprocessos , the direct use  of this for charcoal gasification can  give biochar and  high quality   syngas  for metanol or ethanol  via bio or thermoconversion .
> 
>   Thus small biorefineray of coupled biotherm process , origionally  patended  by IGT, USA can  be adopted  and make posible for CHP  energy production  and methanol Co production  as small grid based biorefinery.
> 
> Dr Reed  , can be consider as  origional thinker  and father who had  long time vision of sustainable  syngas, methanol frrom  biomass and bioenergy power .His long time dream  can be reality as compared  to biomass ethanol projects sustainabilty of  several waste biomass  residues upgrading into biopower .As   the gasoline , ethanol ,methanol can be well mixed , can go well  more sustainable transportation fuel ate present and future 
> For the same yet proven technology are needed , Integrated However  the Biotherm process  ,CHP and methanol  are  complex system ,need good system design  and engineering work  from diversified experts, but not  as  such as big petro refinery  projects 
> Our lists do have  this diversity , dynamic members , thus make possible  to compare known technology , innovate new one do , get help from experts from this list made posible by TOM
> 
>    Some off topics are  good , but need not exceed  the main topics too
> 
> Your sincerely
> Panirselvam P.V 
> Brazil 
> 
> 
> 
>     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Phillip
> 
> The power generation sounds interesting.
> 
> What is the feed sock for the digester?  Carbohydrates?
> 
> 2 CH2O ===> CH4 + H2O.
> 
> A dr, carve in India has built a small  digestor that produces all the methane needed to cook the meals.
> 
> I suppose a larger digester could supply the electric power too.
> 
> Keep talking...
> 
> Tom Reed
> 
> Dr Thomas B Reed
> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> www.Woodgas.com
> 
> On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:03 PM, phillip manske <pdmanske at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Its good to hear from you.  I taught ESL in Korea for six years and
> > instead of coming back to the US directly, I went to Kiev and stayed
> > in East Europe for year.  I went to Moldova, Poland and Romania too.
> > I lived on the money I saved while in Korea and my Fed government
> > pension.  I was poor there and I didn't do much but work on a website
> > that was inspired by my Fed time.  I made a large Freedom of
> > Information Act program and I did most of the work in cafe's with free
> > WiFi.
> >
> > Melitopol is in the Russian half of Ukraine, I generally like the
> > Ukies better than the Russians but I think the women are more
> > attractive.   I've been to Melitopol twice already.  No one visits
> > Melitopol, its kind of a hole.  Anna is an ethnic Russian living in
> > Ukraine.
> >
> > http://khersongirls.com - that is the agency I recommend.  Consider
> > all of the others as scams.  I've met the owner and I've been to the
> > office many times.
> >
> >
> > If you want to get involved with my "Gold" project you are welcome.
> > Its gonna take some money but not much.  My investor advisor says to
> > make the lab reactor and then the GEK scale reactor.  I think the lab
> > reactor will look like this...
> >
> > http://www.chemglass.com/product_view.asp?pnr=CLS-1404
> >
> > I don't want to appear as a Johnny come lately into biofuels but it
> > kind of looks that way.  I was an electrican in the navy a long time
> > ago and I said I'd return to power generation if the things were
> > right.  The concept is complicated, the practice is easy.  Once the
> > gens run, there is no work to do.  You just need to check the engines
> > twice a day and that takes 20 minutes max each time.  You really have
> > the whole day off for the next fifteen years if you get a contract.
> >
> > That's whats up.
> >
> > Phillip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> So, do you have an office in Melitopol?  Looks like it's close to the black sea.
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> Dr Thomas B Reed
> >> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> >> www.Woodgas.com
> >>
> >> On Jul 18, 2011, at 10:25 PM, phillip manske <pdmanske at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Dr. Reed,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the concern.  I had to pay bills for two months and then I
> >>> needed some cash so I can go marriage agency dates in Ukraine.  I
> >>> lived in Ukraine for a year so I kinda know whats up.  I found a woman
> >>> there that likes me.  She looks like Meagan Fox but she has larger
> >>> breasts.  She sells cosmetics and lives in Melitopol.  I work next to
> >>> a corporate lake and the lake is feed by storm run off.  The lake has
> >>> some good wildlife and I have taken to  turtle rescue when the chelons
> >>> get stuck in the drainage pipes.  I got ten already.  I have a snapper
> >>> hatchling and hand sized softshell on a shelf by my desk.
> >>>
> >>> That's pretty cool Phil but it has nothing to with biomass.
> >>>
> >>> I don't talk about gasifiers here because I don't know Jack.
> >>> Sometimes you just need to shut up and listen.
> >>>
> >>> Yea so I decided I should read about the matter.
> >>> This book is great.
> >>> http://www.amazon.com/Transportation-Biofuels-Production-Biodiesel-Chemistry/dp/1849730431
> >>>
> >>> I got an eCopy if you want to see the relevant material.  The methane
> >>> part looks way doable and in fact I'm slowly working on that.  I found
> >>> sciencedirect.com which has a great index and all of the papers on the
> >>> matter are availalbe for free at the uni library but I don't have my
> >>> Indiana drives lic/ID yet so its another two weeks.  The papers come
> >>> to $4500 if I have to pay.
> >>>
> >>> I wrote an executive summary for someone at GoBig and I after I sent
> >>> that off they asked for an executive summary and asked a few other
> >>> questions.  I made a good post at GEK and I got ass kissy with Mr.
> >>> Mason trying to amend my earlier offences.
> >>>
> >>> Whats up with you Tom?
> >>>
> >>> Warmest Regards
> >>>
> >>> Phillip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Phillip Manske
> >>> 195 w Puetz Rd h-114
> >>> Oak Creek WI, 53154
> >>> pmanske at afuels.net
> >>>
> >>> Alchemy Fuels Executive Summary
> >>> Saturday, July 16, 2011
> >>>
> >>> The Energy Policy Act of 2005 has mandated that investor owned
> >>> utilities must provide a certain amount of the energy they provide
> >>> must be sourced from renewable sources.  This amount has been
> >>> regulated to grow both now and in the future.  To date, wind and solar
> >>> sources have been providing most of this energy while biomass sourced
> >>> energy has lagged.  Utilities have been rejecting new applications for
> >>> wind and solar energies while courting biomass providers as many slots
> >>> are still open.  Alchemy has determined a course to make low cost
> >>> biofuel to fulfill these requirements is a realistic and profitable
> >>> goal.
> >>>
> >>> After reviewing scientific literature on the matter I, (working as
> >>> Alchemy Fuels) have decided that a two stage reactor designed to make
> >>> methane is the most efficient route to a biofuel called “biogas”.
> >>> This method was developed early in the biofuels research efforts and
> >>> then abandoned in favor of ethanol and other more lucrative
> >>> transportation fuels.  Methane is a well founded and well functioning
> >>> fuel for generators designed to work with natural gas.   This process
> >>> is well reviewed and appreciated by the scientific community for its
> >>> ease use and lack of exotic requirements.   It can be described as a
> >>> methane digester without the required tons of manure feedstock.  The
> >>> research was pioneered by a scientist named Gaddy who founded a
> >>> company called BRI.  The process is referred as the microbial catalyst
> >>> cellulosic fuel pathway.
> >>>
> >>> The process uses the output from gasifiers that use wood mass as a
> >>> feedstock.  A handful of gases are provided by the gasifier with the
> >>> most important being carbon monoxide and the lesser gases being
> >>> hydrogen, carbon dioxide and methane.  All of the gasses are used in
> >>> the process.  The first stage of the process uses a bacteria called p.
> >>> productus that uses the CO for growth and CO2 for the production of
> >>> acetate which is the feedstock for the second and final stage where a
> >>> bacteria called m. barkeri uses the acetate and hydrogen to make
> >>> methane.  Methane, unlike ethanol , does not need distilling which
> >>> saves considerable effort, energy and money.
> >>>
> >>> The market for the gas or gas use comes from the aforementioned lack
> >>> of biomass energy providers.  Contract length is from 10 – 20 years,
> >>> amount of sale is typically 800 kilo watts per hour and the
> >>> compensation is from $.10 - $.15  per Kw hour.    Providers are
> >>> typically allowed to provide 24 hours a day.  Demand may vary but
> >>> demand is typically strong.  Biogas contracts are generally designed
> >>> for methane digesters but this type of process meets the legal
> >>> definition of biogas even without the $1 million digester.
> >>>
> >>> This is a niche market but it can provide excellent returns and a
> >>> number of contracts can be signed simultaneously.   Sales are assured,
> >>> no distribution network is required.  Plants like this operate at a
> >>> technician level and not an engineer or scientist level.  There are
> >>> few critical points that may induce failure.  The required insurance
> >>> is difficult to get but I have found a provider and at least one work
> >>> around method.
> >>>
> >>> Plants should be located near the biomass source to save money on
> >>> transportation and when the gas is made, it can be shipped at much
> >>> less expense to the generating facilities .   The plants will be
> >>> filled with wood biomass, gasifiers and vats that look like
> >>> microbrewery vats.
> >>>
> >>> Being averse to large expenditures, I recommend a modest approach to
> >>> first make a five gallon reactor using bottled gas, then a system
> >>> using a small gasifier and then finally a system scaled to produce
> >>> fuel at the rate to meet the 800 kwh limit.
> >>>
> >>> The described  process above is worth study and investment.  The
> >>> science is sound, the investment and risk is small, operating overhead
> >>> is very low and sales are guaranteed.  It appears margins should be
> >>> very wide unlike typical margins that are available to investors.
> >>>
> >>> Questions may be directed to me at the email address above.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Phillip Manske
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Phil
> >>>> I haven't heard your name for.a decade or so.  What cooks in biomass?
> >>>> Tom Reed
> >>>>
> >>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
> >>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> >>>> www.Woodgas.com
> >>>> On Jul 18, 2011, at 7:04 PM,
> >>>> "pbadger at bioenergyupdate.com"<pbadger at bioenergyupdate.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> >>>>
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> -- 
> ************************************************
> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
> ASSOCIATE . PROF.
> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator 
> Computer aided  Cost engineering
> 
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