[Gasification] Tar Processing

Thomas Reed tombreed2010 at gmail.com
Mon May 16 08:03:25 CDT 2011 

Dear Vikrant and all

The dreaded word "TAR" evokes nasty images of stuck valves on engines.  It has not always been so.  The CSM library has a 1920 book extolling the virtues of wood tar.  

Wood (and coal) tar was a major source of organic chemicals - practically all organic chemicals -  wood alcohol (methanol), acetone, vanillin, acetic acid (wood vinegar) all about 4%, and several hundred others) for a century until the synthetic chemists began making them cheaper and pure.  

  The last plant, operated by Henry Ford, was closed in 1950.  I believe charcoal kilns produce large quantities, like it or not, and the EPA wont like flaring them.  I believe you get several layers of water solubles and tars.  

I once visited Prof. Othmer (of Kirk Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology fame) at NYU and we discussed the value of wood tars.  He said that wood tar was his family business until synthetic sources were developed.  He said forget it! 

You would need a distillation column to exploit these, but if you are producing them in quantity, it might be fun to separate them, and they are all useful chemicals. 

I hope someone follows this up...  

Tom Reed

Dr Thomas B Reed
President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
www.Woodgas.com

On May 12, 2011, at 12:38 AM, vikrant bhalerao <vikrantbhalerao12 at gmail.com> wrote:

> To , all
>  
> Can somebody elaborate the usage of Tar (waste(??) of Biomass Gasification) ? Also i would like to explore the viability of Tar process to nano fluid  as Tar is complex carbon compund...
> Thanks
> With Regards,
> Vikrant Bhalerao
> Cummins Research and Technology Inc.
> Mobile +91 89 833 20 725
>  
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:30 AM, <gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Charcoal Gasifiers (Robert Kana)
>   2. Re: Charcoal Gasifiers (Anand Karve)
>   3. Re: Charcoal Gasifiers (doug.williams)
>   4. Fruit of my ideas help Mississippi (Carefreeland at aol.com)
>   5. wrong article- try this (Carefreeland at aol.com)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 03:14:21 +0700
> From: Robert Kana <sinan at biomassindo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>        <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <4DC99C9D.60007 at biomassindo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Dear Arnt,
> When we distill wood vinegar, actually very little tar comes to the
> collection tank, rest of the tar either stays in the pipes (has to be
> cleaned every month). This collection is done while the wood or
> briquettes are drying in the chamber. Wood vinegar has no tar, for soil
> enrichment and ph control, it is diluted with water 1/100 or 200. It can
> also be used as pest control if diluted 1/300-500, just spray on the
> leaves and fruits.  About 5-10 cc is put in to bath tub to clean the
> body, it is the main ingredient used in detox pads. When the wood gas
> start coming out, the chimney which is connected to the retort chamber
> is closed and we start burning wood gas in retort's fire chamber to keep
> heating the wood until the gas is finished, by than wood become
> charcoal. If this wood gas could be harnessed, as Tom says there is a
> huge amount of energy is there.
> So far I have tried couple of ways but not successful, and still trying...
> Regards,
> Robert
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:38:00 +0800
> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>        <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <BANLkTiktN7phvsu18g9b+FdhXZyaWOHbWA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Dear List,
> we have tested wood vinegar as a pesticide on plants. It works in the
> case of moderate infestation, but if the infestation is severe,
> especially with sucking pests such as mealy bugs and woolly aphids,
> one has to use a conventional organo-phosphatic systemic insecticide.
> Biochar has never worked in our local soils, which have pH higher
> than 8.5. Wood vinegar has a number of organic acids in it, which may
> be used by the soil micro-organisms as their carbon source, so that
> they multiply their numbers. That the population density of soil
> micro-organisms is positively correlated with soil fertility, is a
> known and accepted fact. Therefore, any treatment, which causes the
> soil microbe population to rise, would automatically result in higher
> soil fertility.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> 
> On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Arnt Karlsen <arnt at c2i.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:12:57 +0700, Robert wrote in message
> > <4DC947E9.5090303 at biomassindo.com>:
> >
> >> Dear Anand,
> >> Thanks for the info. I am a charcoal specialist with biomass
> >> background. I own a small briquette charcoal factory and we know how
> >> to use barrel to make charcoal. One suggestion, if you have a long
> >> chimney in the back, slent to chimney 30 degrees, cover the top (must
> >> be a temporary cover, when the wood gas started coming out we need to
> >> move the cover to burn the gas), let the wood smoke get cooler and
> >> put drum on the bottom so you can also collect wood vinegar and teach
> >> the farmers how to use wood vinegar for soil enrichment, against
> >> pests... Regards,
> >> Robert
> >
> > ..how much carbon can be put into farmland soil this way,
> > and the biochar way?
> >
> > --
> > ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
> > ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
> > ?Scenarios always come in sets of three:
> > ?best case, worst case, and just in case.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
> 
> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 18:43:30 +1200
> From: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
>        <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <287CD0D497144956AB221B0401BC52DF at dougspc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Dr Karve,
> 
> As this particular line of discussion is relevant to work of my associates, I would like to offer some comments that may be of interest to yourself and others who use the term biochars for soils enhancement. I also have personal interest as a organic citrus grower (in past years), and there is some relevance to put reason behind certain failures.
> 
> >we have tested wood vinegar as a pesticide on plants. It works in the
> >case of moderate infestation, but if the infestation is severe,
> >especially with sucking pests such as mealy bugs and woolly aphids,
> >one has to use a conventional organo-phosphatic systemic insecticide.
> 
> As an acid, wood vinegar cannot penetrate the waxy type coating of "some" pests. From experience (not with wood vinegar), you need to add a surfacicant, which wets the infestation through it's protective coating. This is a simple as adding a liquid detergent to the spray mix. I have no recommended ratio, but you can see it work when the spray wets the insect. Most phenolic compounds will kill or upset the insect to detach and leave the feeding surfaces.
> 
> >Biochar has never worked in our local soils, which have pH higher
> >than 8.5. Wood vinegar has a number of organic acids in it, which may
> >be used by the soil micro-organisms as their carbon source, so that
> >they multiply their numbers. That the population density of soil
> >micro-organisms is positively correlated with soil fertility, is a
> >known and accepted fact.
> 
> If the soils are already containing high levels of carbon or micro-organisms, what you say has relevance, but key here in this type of discussion, is the type of char being used. Most char readily available as a waste stream and dumped as soil enhancement, is of the wrong type to provide a habitat for soil micro-organisms, being made to maximize the carbon content and density for smokeless cooking. This is the type needed for carbon sequestrian to maximize the reduction of atmospheric carbon. Soil bacteria on the other hand, need safe habitats, and this type of carbon is of the activated type, with huge internal surface porosities. Other than providing a habitat, the carbon also provide the means of holding nutrients in soils that might not retain them if applied just to the soils.
> 
> Therefore, any treatment, which causes the
> soil microbe population to rise, would automatically result in higher
> soil fertility.
> 
> I am 100% behind your conclusion, and hope the work that many are devoting their soil research work, can add to their knowledge from the flow on effect, of gasification technology.
> 
> Hope this might be of interest.
> 
> Doug Williams,
> Fluidyne Gasification.
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:26:43 EDT
> From: Carefreeland at aol.com
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Gasification] Fruit of my ideas help Mississippi
> Message-ID: <c69a6.6c26f980.3afbf6a3 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Gasification friends,
> 
> It's been a while. Turbulent times for me here in  Dayton, Ohio.  I
> received a call from John Guthrie a couple of weeks ago.  He told me that he had
> sold the land he wanted to sell me, to a company that  makes pellets. He said
> " Katrina took all of our small trees". I thought he said  Pallets and
> didn't know what he was calling me for. Then he mentioned a chipping  mill now
> being built there. After I got off the phone I realized you don't need  a
> chipping mill to make Pallets. I remembered pushing him in 2005 to bring a  wood
> pellet mill to Wiggins because the pulp market was glutted. He didn't know
> much about wood pellets.
>     I did a search on the web and found out what  happened to my need to
> create a job for my tree shear with the pulp business  glutted. LOL
> _http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-expa
> nds-pproduction_
> (http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-expands-pproduction)
> 
> Check it out. Maybe he will send some pellets north on the Kansas City
> Southern, the railroad company that brought him to Wiggins in 1948. A the time
> Wiggins grew cucumbers and sold pickles.
> 
>    You never know what will happen when you start  promoting Biomass
> energy.
> 
>    Dan Dimiduk
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:45:06 EDT
> From: Carefreeland at aol.com
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Gasification] wrong article- try this
> Message-ID: <c7ea0.6ca9f7ba.3afbfaf2 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> _http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-expa
> nds-production_
> (http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-expands-production)
> 
> 
> Dan Dimiduk
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> ------------------------------
> 
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> 
> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5
> ******************************************
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