[Gasification] Underwater gasification?

Mark Ludlow mark at ludlow.com
Fri May 20 06:17:14 CDT 2011


At least there would be no worry of air pollution (assuming all the products
of combustion and semi-combustion stayed in the pristine water.)

 

Mark

 

From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 01:29
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

 

Dear GF

 

This is very interesting! Would you have any idea of the search terms to use
in the Patent System, to find the patent? Was it a US or foreign patent? We
wouldn't be so lucky that you had a patent number, would we?? :-)

 

Thanks!

 

Kevin

----- Original Message ----- 

From: GF <mailto:gfwhell at aol.com>  

To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org 

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 1:35 AM

Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

 

In the 1890's a patent was issued for an invention for the propulsion of a
vessel using the explosion of gas above a column of watet which was forced
out of the vessel

in the opposite direction to the desired direction of navigation. The
process could be reversed for slowing down purposes. This invention
preceeded Humphrie's pump by about thirty years. A jet propelled vessel
using heated biomass as fuel with only a couple of moving components sound
worthy of investigation.

I do remember sailing toy boats with a coil of tube as the "engine" with a
candle providing enough heat to boil the water within the coil causing a
pulse jet out back.

 

GF

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at danielchisholm.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

Sam conceptually speaking you would be using the thermoelectric generators
as a "transmission" of sorts - you are connecting hot flue gas on one side,
which the T.E.G. turns it into electrically generated shaft power on the
other side.  So the question becomes whether this is the best way for you to
convert heat from wood into shaft power for your propeller. 

 

My initial thoughts are that this is probably not an effective way to get
this done.  One issue is that thermoelectric generators are very
inefficient, on the order of 1% or 2% (this means that you need to feed them
50hp or 100hp of thermal energy in order to produce 1hp of electrical
power).  Or, the 55,000 btu/hr heat source you quote might be expected to
produce 550-1100btu/hr of electrical power (which at 3412btu/hr per kilowatt
would be 0.16-0.32kW or about 1/6hp to 1/3hp).  In comparison an old
fashioned low pressure simple steam engine will probably give you 5% to 8%
efficiency (so several times more economical of wood than an T.E.G.) and a
small gasoline engine would be on the order of 20% (so wood would have to be
10X or even 20X cheaper than gasoline, which is quite unlikely

 

Another big factor is cost per unit of power, the panel you link to is $320
for a 30 watt panel, so we are talking about $10,000 per kilowatt (contrast
this to say a 100kW automotive engine that costs say $5000, or a how much a
10hp (7.5kW) outboard motor might cost).

 

Thermoelectric generators have a number of virtues, for example no moving
parts, maintenance free and very long life, quiet operation, etc., which
make them excellent choices for some unusual special applications.  But I
expect they are unlikely to be a good match for a principal power source
like boat propulsion.


-- 
- Daniel
Fredericton, NB  Canada

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