[Gasification] Underwater gasification?

Sun May 22 11:40:10 CDT 2011

The propulsion of boats yachts and the like, with the use of carbureted fuel is fully described in US Patent # 676,164.
I think the construction of a model is called for, using a small propane tank to start with, later, we can upscale a New York garbage Barge to burn its cargo using a screw fed gasifier instead of dumping it untreated.
There would be no problem with tars etc fouling such a simple "Engine" as described in this patent, the high temperatures involved with exploding gas would wring out the extra calories which would also be converted into a propulsion water jet.
The patent obviously requires improvements leaving opportunities for a NEW PATENT. Humphries pump had an atmospheric exhaust sytem

GF

-----Original Message-----
From: GF <gfwhell at aol.com>
To: mark <mark at ludlow.com>; gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Sat, May 21, 2011 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

Kevin .
I have a copy of the US patent "somewhere" and I have mentioned this particular patent previously , it must also be in the Archives when discussing "Huphries gas engine" In fact I think it was mentioned by the examiner on Humphries Patent. But when it surfaces I will give you the details.

GF

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Ludlow <mark at ludlow.com>
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Fri, May 20, 2011 7:17 am
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

At least there would be no worry of air pollution (assuming all the products of combustion and semi-combustion stayed in the pristine water.)

Mark

From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 01:29
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

Dear GF

This is very interesting! Would you have any idea of the search terms to use in the Patent System, to find the patent? Was it a US or foreign patent? We wouldn't be so lucky that you had a patent number, would we?? :-)

Thanks!

Kevin

----- Original Message ----- 

From: GF 

To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org 

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 1:35 AM

Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

In the 1890's a patent was issued for an invention for the propulsion of a vessel using the explosion of gas above a column of watet which was forced out of the vessel

in the opposite direction to the desired direction of navigation. The process could be reversed for slowing down purposes. This invention preceeded Humphrie's pump by about thirty years. A jet propelled vessel using heated biomass as fuel with only a couple of moving components sound  worthy of investigation.

I do remember sailing toy boats with a coil of tube as the "engine" with a candle providing enough heat to boil the water within the coil causing a pulse jet out back.

GF

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at danielchisholm.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?

Sam conceptually speaking you would be using the thermoelectric generators as a "transmission" of sorts - you are connecting hot flue gas on one side, which the T.E.G. turns it into electrically generated shaft power on the other side.  So the question becomes whether this is the best way for you to convert heat from wood into shaft power for your propeller. 

My initial thoughts are that this is probably not an effective way to get this done.  One issue is that thermoelectric generators are very inefficient, on the order of 1% or 2% (this means that you need to feed them 50hp or 100hp of thermal energy in order to produce 1hp of electrical power).  Or, the 55,000 btu/hr heat source you quote might be expected to produce 550-1100btu/hr of electrical power (which at 3412btu/hr per kilowatt would be 0.16-0.32kW or about 1/6hp to 1/3hp).  In comparison an old fashioned low pressure simple steam engine will probably give you 5% to 8% efficiency (so several times more economical of wood than an T.E.G.) and a small gasoline engine would be on the order of 20% (so wood would have to be 10X or even 20X cheaper than gasoline, which is quite unlikely

Another big factor is cost per unit of power, the panel you link to is $320 for a 30 watt panel, so we are talking about $10,000 per kilowatt (contrast this to say a 100kW automotive engine that costs say $5000, or a how much a 10hp (7.5kW) outboard motor might cost).

Thermoelectric generators have a number of virtues, for example no moving parts, maintenance free and very long life, quiet operation, etc., which make them excellent choices for some unusual special applications.  But I expect they are unlikely to be a good match for a principal power source like boat propulsion.

-- 
- Daniel
Fredericton, NB  Canada

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