[Gasification] Underwater gasification?

[Henri Naths]

Hi Anand
 I believe we are talking about the dynamic forces of propulsion.
<I was comparing the friction of the boat with water with the friction of a 
loaded cart on
land.>
Here you are comparing the friction of water to air and the wheel bearings 
or commonly known as friction of rolling resistance .. not land ( I'm 
assuming the cart has wheels.. my bad .. if the cart had no wheels the 
common name for that is a stone boat.)
there are two vital forces here:
1.. hp
2..resistance
The hp required is the hp needed to overcome friction.  I believe density 
difference of the two surrounding  mediums plays a vital role in this 
analysis.
This is what I know about the properties of dynamic propulsion:
Researching boat hull friction  you appreciate the difference of water to 
air density. This is why the general  mode of transportation went from water 
to land including airplanes because it was easier or more efficient.
I will illustrate with this example:  Take a sail area of a boat in the 
water and compare this to the same sail area of a boat on land with 
wheels..(even less friction is the blades on an ice sailing boat)  You will 
find it is alot easier to move the boat on land.
In a comparison  analyst you have to take the exact same dynamics to arrive 
at a proper conclusion.
Are we on the same page? or did I miss something.

Putting these dynamic properties of propulsion in perspective, the friction 
losses in a Humphrey-inspired water jet  idea does not equal the friction 
losses in a piston engine: less moving parts equals more hp.
(the jet engine surpassed the piston engine for the exact same reasons)
H
ps. an ice sailboat can get speed up to 90 m.p.h. ,that is at least a 2-1 
advantage over the fastest sailboat boat on water.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?


Dear Henri,
you have misunderstood me. I said that hauling a boat floating in
water was easier than pulling a cart on land.  I was comparing the
friction of the boat with water with the friction of a loaded cart on
land. The density of air and water have nothing to do with it.  I
mentioned air only as a motive force. Wind can move a boat easily
through water but the wind of the same velocity would be unable to
move a cart on a road.
Yours
A.D.Karve


On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Henri Naths <c_hnaths at telusplanet.net> 
wrote:
> Dear Anand and List
> My "cart" is a vw Jetta that out weights my Boat of equal hp by about 
> 3,1/2
> times. My cart's hp /weight ratio efficiency is approximately 5x better 
> than
> my boat... I tend to disagree with Anand because the density of water is
> ~700 times that of air.
> H
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Underwater gasification?
>
>
> Dear List,
> hauling a boat through water is much easier that pushing a loaded cart
> over land. That is how wind pushed large ships around the world,
> whereas for land transport one needed animal power. A steam jet looks
> very attractive for a small boat. If one can take up the water
> continuously from the river or lake itself, a relatively small boiler
> would suffice for generating the steam.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Daniel Chisholm <dmc at danielchisholm.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> A Humphrey-inspired water jet is an interesting idea.
>> FWIW I don't think it would be an efficient means of low speed marine
>> propulsion though; it would suffer from low propulsive efficiency because
>> the jet velocity would be too high. The efficiency of a reaction engine
>> (which is something that generates thrust by accelerating and expelling
>> mass
>> - a very broad category that includes not just jet and rocket engines but
>> also propellers on aircraft and ships) depends on the speed at which the
>> mass is expelled. Accelerating a small mass to a large speed, is not as
>> efficient as accelerating a larger mass to a lesser speed. If you look at
>> aircraft jet engines today (high bypass ratio turbofans) you will notice
>> that they are much larger in diameter than the jet engines of the 1950s
>> (turbojets) - this is why.
>>
>> --
>> - Daniel
>> Fredericton, NB Canada
>>
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>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
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>
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-- 
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

*Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *

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