[Gasification] [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas

Fri Oct 7 13:46:50 CDT 2011

Hi Mark.
 I think my message was incoherent. When I mention the build up of pressure in a vessel containing multiplying organisms, I did not mention the presence of "heat" which is the basis of Luis Pasteur’s method of sterilization or the speed at which the pressure builds, which might entail an adverse heat reaction, Yeast seems to build up pressure of several atmospheres if contained in a sealed container, does this enhance the reaction or slow it down, and what are the "limits"? 
 Studies at the bottom of the Pacific Trench show bacteria alive and well together with larger forms of life. My question goes UN answered.
Will gas producing bacteria perform” faster” in a pressure retaining environment?
Thus producing high pressure gas PDQ.
Im talking about high pressure here, 14000 psi. if you put your bacteria and nutrient in a respectable container without any air space the pressure  would rise quite fast.
Of course a sudden decompression or re-compression may kill it, as you suggest but that is not My question.

GF

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark E. Ludlow <mark at ludlow.com>
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 3:20 am
Subject: Re: [Gasification] [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas

Geoff:
High pressure is an accepted way to pasteurize juices and eliminate vibrio in and extend the shelf life of oysters. Water is virtually incompressible. Bacteria stay in equilibrium with their environment but react to sudden changes in pressure.
Mark

From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of GF
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:51 PM
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas

I seem to remeber the filter beds laid down with "coke"derived from the GAS WORKS to enhance the bacterial action on sewage.It is interesting to postulate the possibilities of testing other ziolite qualities in other materials than char. The reaction of bacteria over a nutriant soaked porous media especially when it is soaked with recirculated  liquids from behind the scum board which retains the larger solids. This raises a question I have long pondered. Is microbial action accelerated by pressure. If this reaction is contained within a pressure vessel? For instance :

what sort of result could we expect if this bacterial action took place at say 9000lb per sq inch, give or take a few atmospheres. I have heard that beer bottles explode if unchecked during fermentation, is the generation of gasses increased with pressure forcing the nutrient down the throat of the  microbes  as it were?

GF

-----Original Message-----
From: back40 <back40 at gmail.com>
To: paul.harris <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 4:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas

I wonder if this is relevant:
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/feature-stories/2011/10/05/soil-carbon/

"Michael Schmidt, a co-author of the Nature paper from the University
of Zurich, has already found that biochar, which is charred material
from wildfires or a kiln, is not stable as previously believed. It
also readily decomposes. Some scientists had believed that biochar
could be used to sequester carbon, but this may not be the case."

On 10/6/11, Paul Harris <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au> wrote:
> G’day All,
> 
> 
> 
> For the “non digesters” in particular some anaerobic digesters are packed
> with plastic rings/balls or other media to provide a surface for bacteria,
> so what Dr Karve has possibly done (I am guessing here) is provided “homes”
> for a lot more bacteria so they are not washed out. This is good for
> solutions but not so good if there are solids in the waste stream.
> 
> 
> 
> The other possibility is that the extra carbon has restored the C:N ratio.
> 
> 
> 
> Could you give more details of what you did Dr Karve, if it is possible (I
> understand you may have some commercial interests to protect)?
> 
> 
> 
> Happy digesting,
> 
> HOOROO
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The
> University of Adelaide,
> 
> Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph  : +61 8 8303 7880      Fax  :
> +61 8 8303 4386
> 
> Roseworthy Campus, Ph  : +61 8 8303 7929
> 
> mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
> 
> 
> 
> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
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> From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
> rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2011 1:35 PM
> To: Anand Karve; gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org; Discussion of
> biomass; biochar; digestion
> Subject: [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas
> 
> 
> 
> AD (cc four lists):
> 
>     I have not previously seen the connection between Biochar and Biogas
> that you described (below) today on the gasification list.     In
> particular, you say you ".. filled the digester
> with charcoal, my system accepted three times the normal daily input
> and produced three times as much gas."
> I think what you describe can be a very powerful push for both Biochar and
> Biogas.  Can you describe what you have learned a little more?
> 
>      I know too little of digesters, so this is not clear.  I think I know
> your kitchen-sized inverted "barrel" gas chamber and think I understand the
> last part - of getting three times as much gas in the next 24 hours or less
> (and 3X is a huge change!).   Does the idea of accepting three times more
> mean essentially the same thing?  I would think you could "jam" any amount
> in;  what limits acceptance?
> 
>     Do you agree that this is very important new information?  Do you agree
> this information could help speed up both technologies?  I believe there is
> wide agreement that Biochar benefits from added biological material (that
> would not be long-lived from a sequestration perspective).  Is there any
> reason to think that the traditional use of digester effluent for ag
> improvements will be in any way harmed if it is continued through the
> addition of carbon-negative Biochar?  Should this not promote sales of your
> charcoal-making stoves?
> 
>    If I haven't asked quite the right question - please answer the right
> one.  And congratulations on learning and reporting this.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 

-- 
Regards,
Gary Jones

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