[Gasification] Fwd: For Your Safety from Shell Oil Company - THIS IS NOT A JOKE! Clash of technologies.

Mon Mar 19 12:59:35 CDT 2012

Almost any complex device using electricity can have or develop faults 
that produce sparks or high local temperature capable of igniting 
gasoline vapors in air. Some designs and manufacturing processes will 
make this very unlikely, others less so.

  Demonstrations make good PR but don't prove the impossibility or 
establish the chances of things happening for other equipment or conditions.

  If you want to have high confidence that it won't happen offer a well 
advertised $1000 prize for anyone who can show how to make it happen.

However two thing make such events unlikely even for bad designs

1.  In most such failures the device would fail before it happening at a 
gas pump.

2.  Most failures would be adequately isolated from the gasses by the case.

Recent physical damage could, however, make both these untrue.

If doors are opened then one must also consider conditions of chargers, 
the connections, and phone being charging which are more likely to be 
sources of ignition.

Cheers,

craig

On 3/19/2012 2:58 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier wrote:
> Dear Henri,
>
> Please carefully read the articles at snopes.com
>
> What you are talking about is an urban legend. If someone cannot under 
> experimental conditions where they are actually trying to ignite 
> gasoline with a cell phone succeed in this attempt, why does the error 
> persist that you can do it by mistake?
>
> http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp
>
> http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/static.asp
>
> Also, excuse me, but what motivation does a fuel multi have by 
> supposedly covering something like this up? If it was simply true, it 
> wouldn't harm either their business nor their profit margin. (The 
> person using the phone is the responsible one) Same thing with the 
> mobile phone companies. And with most service providers providing 
> flat-rates, they aren't even motivated to get more people to call by 
> having everybody talking on their phone whilst filling 'er up. Oh, I 
> get it, phone users don't want to be inhibited in their use of the 
> cell phone while tanking. So they're covering up the danger. Now I get 
> it. Not.
>
> Let's talk about producers and related issues here, this myth has been 
> floating around, unsupported by facts, since 1999.
>
>
> regards,
>
> Ronald von Almostninedollardieselland
>
>
>
>
> On 19.03.2012 06:19, Henri Naths wrote:
>> Hi Mark , Tom and all
>> Your right Mark 150 deaths that may or may not be caused cell phones 
>> is not a problem for the oil companies. If you look at the billions 
>> of gallons of gasoline sold in that time period and take a wild guess 
>> at the stats it could be in the neighborhood of .0000001% . Not a 
>> problem. But if it's you or your wife and kids in that small 
>> insignificant % than its a huge problem. Just saying.
>> Henri
>> Any statisticians want weigh in ?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2012-03-18, at 9:43 PM, "Mark Ludlow"<mark at ludlow.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Tom,
>>>
>>> Most times it's relatively difficult just to keep the optimized gas/air
>>> mixture igniting in the combustion chambers of our automobiles! 
>>> This, with
>>> fat, healthy sparks!
>>>
>>> If this were really an issue for the petroleum companies (It's not!) 
>>> they
>>> would not be such rabid advocates of self-service gas!
>>>
>>> Best, Mark
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Thomas Reed [mailto:tombreed2010 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 7:34 PM
>>> To: mark at ludlow.com; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fwd: For Your Safety from Shell Oil 
>>> Company -
>>> THIS IS NOT A JOKE! Clash of technologies.
>>>
>>> Dear Mark
>>>
>>> I only passed on the warning from Shell Oil.  I have had no experience
>>> myself with cell phones igniting a combustible vapor, but I don't 
>>> think it
>>> is impossible.  What is your basis for thinking so?
>>>
>>> Tom Reed
>>>
>>> Thomas B Reed
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 18, 2012, at 10:30 AM, "Mark Ludlow"<mark at ludlow.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> No one has managed to make a cell phone ignite gasoline vapors. this
>>>> is Internet Urban Myth BS!
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Robert Kana
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 6:57 AM
>>>> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fwd: For Your Safety from Shell Oil
>>>> Company - THIS IS NOT A JOKE! Clash of technologies.
>>>>
>>>> Dear Dr. Reed,
>>>> Thanks for the advice, we all know cell phones generate some kind of
>>>> magnetic power, when it is connecting. I believe there is a
>>>> connection, but gasoline fumes will not ignite unless there is a 
>>>> source of
>>> heat or spark.
>>>> Most of the US is now covered with Stage 2 vapor recovery system,
>>>> which consist of double pipes, one for fuel going in to the tank
>>>> another one fumes going back to storage tanks. All the gasoline trucks
>>>> are grounded with special wires at the fueling terminals, as well as
>>>> grounded in the  gas station delivery points with the metal piping
>>> connectors.
>>>> Over 30 years of gas station operator, contractor and installing
>>>> underground storage tanks in NY, I had 2 experiences with fires.
>>>> Actually one fire and one explosion. They both involved with the 
>>>> fumes.
>>>> First incident in one of my gas stations, there was a spill in hot
>>>> summer, over fill gasoline spilled on the floor. The next car come to
>>>> get gas, stopped right on the spill and it caught a fire from the hot
>>>> muffler. We put out the fire immediately, but instructed all the gas
>>>> stations to keep a bucket full of water to wash any spill and cool the
>>>> vapors of  gasoline. On second incident, one of my mechanic friend was
>>>> fixing a gas tank and he wanted to look inside the tank with a hand
>>>> lamp. The heat source from the lamp cause explosion of the fumes in
>>>> the tanks, my friend survived the accident.
>>>> I just want to add couple more pre cautions. Most of us fill the gas
>>>> at self service.
>>>> When the nozzle clicks, come to closest number and do not overfill.
>>>> If there is a spill no matter how small just put on some water, most
>>>> of the gas stations has water for cleaning windshields.
>>>> When you pull in the gas station, make sure the ground is clean.
>>>> And always remember, the fumes from the gasoline is extremely 
>>>> flammable.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>>
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