[Gasification] Producer gas especially suited to diesel conversion
Thomas Reed
tombreed2010 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 15 11:55:44 CDT 2012
Dear Greg and all
So, it makes MUCH more sense to convert a Diesel engine to PG than a gasoline engine, because the higher CR will pay off directly in power and efficiency. I don't think I have ever heard this stated so positively.
I think also that the ability to keep a pilot of diesel and add PG is a useful feature, and the ability to switch to full diesel is also attractive.
Tom Reed
On Oct 12, 2012, at 8:53 PM, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Tom, Vikrant, and all.
>
> I aggree with Tom here, the "so to speak" octane rating of PG is much higher than petrol (gasoline).
>
> Instead of trying to re-invent the wheel here, many people conver a diesel to a spark ignition engine, and THEN run it as a high compression engine that is GREAT for PG, 17 to 1 is a common compression ratio in a diesel. this is the simplest conversion that I know of, that will get you a great engine, ideally configured to run PG.
>
> To put this into perspective, replace the injectors with sparkplug adaptor bushings, and the injector pump, with a bushing and gear configuration to run an electronic distributor,
>
> I have heard that the volvo distributor will drop into the diesel version of the same engine, what model or series, or age for that matter I have no idea, I do have a video of a friend over in Eruope that has done this conversion to a volvo powered tractor, the video is more on the "going to get a supply of wood" than the actual components, but could dig up his phone number if needed (might take a while), the video I have in my documents on the comupter, so could put that on a site quickly if you want.
>
> let me know,
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Greg and all
>>
>> Producer gas from wood tends to contain 21% CO as well as 19% H2 (And ~ 4%methane, CH4).
>>
>> The heat of combustion of both is about 270 BTU/scf, so don't forget or downgrade the CO content. CO has the lowest flame velocity of any fuel gas, but H2 is about 5X most other gases, so the combination of H2, CO and CH4 (1,000 Btu/acf) burns reasonably well (but don't breathe too much of it).
>>
>> <><><>
>>
>> "Octane" is a measure of the degree to which a gas-air mixture can be compressed before it pre-ignites. Typically the CR of gasoline is ~ 9/1, and the Octane is ~ 90, and in general required octane = 10X CR.
>>
>> The power and efficiency of IC engines is directly proportional to CR and hence to octane.
>>
>> With 50% N2, the octane of producer gas is around 180! So you can increase the CR of engines using PG to 18/1 and double the power and efficiency.
>>
>> <><><>
>>
>> Modern engines use knock sensors/timing to increase combustion efficiency by operating just below the knock limit. I presume that this would greatly increase power and efficiency of PG, but I don't know if they could increase CR enough to accomodate PG.
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> Onward...
>>
>> Tom Reed
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:46 AM, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings Vikrant,
>>>
>>> Generally, when talking about the quality of producer gas (PG) we talk of the percentage of Hydrogen (H2), natural air driven systems range from 6% H2, to good quality systems that produce upwards of 30% H2 content.
>>>
>>> If one moves to a oxygen based system (SG) Synthisis Gas, the H2 content pushes the 60% and up level, If one moves to externally driven systems, I am told they are even higher than that.
>>> <><><>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Greg Manning
>>> Canadian Gasifier Ltd.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:51 AM, vikrant bhalerao <vikrantbhalerao12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have a question regarding combustion quality of PG.
>>>> When we talk about natural gas, in short 'Methane index/Methane Number' provide combustion quality. For gasolin/petrol it is 'octane rating'. Can we use 'Methane number' as indicator for PG also ??
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> With Regards,
>>>> Vikrant Bhalerao
>>>> Cummins India Ltd.
>>>> Mobile +91 89 833 20 725
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:30 AM, <gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
>>>>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
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>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Small scale power plants? (Kenny Redd)
>>>>> 2. Small scale power plants? (doug.williams)
>>>>> 3. Small scale power plants? (doug.williams)
>>>>> 4. Gasification of Corn cob (masi karuppu)
>>>>> 5. Re: Gasification of Corn cob (Thomas Reed)
>>>>> 6. Re: Small scale power plants? (Thomas Reed)
>>>>> 7. Re: Small scale power plants? (Thomas Reed)
>>>>> 8. Re: Gasification of Corn cob (Darius)
>>>>> 9. Re: Small scale power plants? (Kenny Redd)
>>>>> 10. Re: Small scale power plants? (Kenny Redd)
>>>>> 11. Re: Small scale power plants? (Phil Marsh)
>>>>> 12. Re: Gasification of Corn cob (Kevin)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 22:42:28 -0500
>>>>> From: Kenny Redd <kenredd at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> Subject: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <CAD9Lsq5hEUS4tV2d-NLXy7RG+ZBrmSPu_EaeH18Mf-m3Vyokeg at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> I tip my hat to bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel
>>>>> (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all assistance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kenny Redd
>>>>> Inova Energy LLC
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:35:51 +1300
>>>>> From: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>,
>>>>> <Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID: <84694C38CDD54725928D1713D37DE21F at dougspc>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kenny,
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to consider a number of options. Tell us more. because there is a huge gap between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the gas, boiler of engine power generation?
>>>>>
>>>>> This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug Williams,
>>>>> Fluidyne.
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:35:51 +1300
>>>>> From: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>,
>>>>> <Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID: <84694C38CDD54725928D1713D37DE21F at dougspc>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kenny,
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to consider a number of options. Tell us more. because there is a huge gap between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the gas, boiler of engine power generation?
>>>>>
>>>>> This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug Williams,
>>>>> Fluidyne.
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20121010/18ff77af/attachment-0003.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 4
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 14:32:43 +0530
>>>>> From: masi karuppu <masikaruppu at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> Subject: [Gasification] Gasification of Corn cob
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <CAEDEmzDtssbbL7VHdr7GKgruuYWrfK9DaXRhbCcoegvyxnhYhw at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Sir,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to know about the operating performance of a gasifier
>>>>> which works on Corn cob as fuel input.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks and regards
>>>>> K.Subramaniam
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 5
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:19:35 -0400
>>>>> From: Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification of Corn cob
>>>>> Message-ID: <BA4B42AD-C053-4789-98F9-AD38EF8B236F at gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Masi
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never run a gasifier on corn cobs, but I believe they would be an excellent fuel as long as the moisture content is <15%. Be sure to operate lighting the TOP of the pile so that the char sits above the unburned fuel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Write me -send a picture- if you can.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours truly,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Reed
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas B Reed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:02 AM, masi karuppu <masikaruppu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Dear Sir,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I would like to know about the operating performance of a gasifier
>>>>> > which works on Corn cob as fuel input.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks and regards
>>>>> > K.Subramaniam
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 6
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:22:45 -0400
>>>>> From: Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>, Discussion of
>>>>> biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>,
>>>>> "<Gasification at bioenergylists.org>" <Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID: <4BD28B36-55AE-4619-B1C3-DA40AD77AF2F at gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> Biocoal isNOT charcoal! It contains 80% of the energy in the original wood, but is friable, easily compressed, briquettes or fired as a powder in utility boilers by itself or as an aid to better combustion of powdered coal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Reed
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas B Reed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 1:35 AM, "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hi Kenny,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > You ask:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to consider a number of options. Tell us more. because there is a huge gap between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the gas, boiler of engine power generation?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Doug Williams,
>>>>> > Fluidyne.
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20121010/a87f66c5/attachment-0002.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 7
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:22:45 -0400
>>>>> From: Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>, Discussion of
>>>>> biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>,
>>>>> "<Gasification at bioenergylists.org>" <Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID: <4BD28B36-55AE-4619-B1C3-DA40AD77AF2F at gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> Biocoal isNOT charcoal! It contains 80% of the energy in the original wood, but is friable, easily compressed, briquettes or fired as a powder in utility boilers by itself or as an aid to better combustion of powdered coal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Reed
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas B Reed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 1:35 AM, "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hi Kenny,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > You ask:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to consider a number of options. Tell us more. because there is a huge gap between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the gas, boiler of engine power generation?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Doug Williams,
>>>>> > Fluidyne.
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20121010/a87f66c5/attachment-0003.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 8
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:14:19 +0700
>>>>> From: Darius <darius_tamizi at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification of Corn cob
>>>>> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1115A4D5FC27DBA64823C4E8A8E0 at phx.gbl>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>> As long as the corb is dry, it produce almost the same gas quality as
>>>>> wood, but you need to add the corb 2 times more quick than wood.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Darius
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/10/2012 8:19 PM, Thomas Reed wrote:
>>>>> > Dear Masi
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have never run a gasifier on corn cobs, but I believe they would be an excellent fuel as long as the moisture content is <15%. Be sure to operate lighting the TOP of the pile so that the char sits above the unburned fuel.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Write me -send a picture- if you can.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yours truly,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Tom Reed
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thomas B Reed
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:02 AM, masi karuppu <masikaruppu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Dear Sir,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I would like to know about the operating performance of a gasifier
>>>>> >> which works on Corn cob as fuel input.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks and regards
>>>>> >> K.Subramaniam
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 9
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:34:02 -0500
>>>>> From: Kenny Redd <kenredd at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>, Discussion of
>>>>> biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <CAD9Lsq6Jnf3OprF=QAP6=HpCf9AmNO3CCey=dj9OX2DHYu4yhw at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Doug and Tom for responding to my inquiry,
>>>>>
>>>>> A little clarity is in order. I am a designer for an R&D company that
>>>>> tends to contract to Federal agencies. I have discussions with top level
>>>>> decision makers within the company. I have pointed out the US Army's seven
>>>>> billion dollar energy acqusition program and have suggested that my
>>>>> employer consider a Power Producing Agreement (PPA) with the Army. I have
>>>>> suggested that Federal lands provide the space for biofuel crops. These
>>>>> crops would ultimately be converted via pyrolysis to a coal surrogate that
>>>>> can be handled like fossil coal. However, the PPA power would likely have
>>>>> to be distributed in a decentralized, on-site fashion and on a scale much
>>>>> smaller than the typical gigawatt power plant.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not my interest to employ gasification as the fuel product, but as
>>>>> part of the process to produce a transportable, exportable, friable, solid
>>>>> fuel from the feedstocks. My review of the gasification industry shows
>>>>> that the technology for producing the "bio-coal" is mature and readily
>>>>> available. However, it doesn't appear there are small scale, power-plants
>>>>> suitable for on-site power production. Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again, and Bioenergylists is one of the best forums on the web.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:35 AM, doug.williams
>>>>> <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *Hi Kenny,*
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *You ask*:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel
>>>>> > (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing
>>>>> > interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to
>>>>> > consider a number of options. **Tell us more. because there is a huge gap
>>>>> > between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs
>>>>> > stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is
>>>>> > the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the
>>>>> > capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing
>>>>> > biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the
>>>>> > gas, boiler of engine power generation? *
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the
>>>>> > future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and
>>>>> > your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.*
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *Doug Williams,*
>>>>> > *Fluidyne.*
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20121010/1db7c8e1/attachment-0002.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 10
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:34:02 -0500
>>>>> From: Kenny Redd <kenredd at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>, Discussion of
>>>>> biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <CAD9Lsq6Jnf3OprF=QAP6=HpCf9AmNO3CCey=dj9OX2DHYu4yhw at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Doug and Tom for responding to my inquiry,
>>>>>
>>>>> A little clarity is in order. I am a designer for an R&D company that
>>>>> tends to contract to Federal agencies. I have discussions with top level
>>>>> decision makers within the company. I have pointed out the US Army's seven
>>>>> billion dollar energy acqusition program and have suggested that my
>>>>> employer consider a Power Producing Agreement (PPA) with the Army. I have
>>>>> suggested that Federal lands provide the space for biofuel crops. These
>>>>> crops would ultimately be converted via pyrolysis to a coal surrogate that
>>>>> can be handled like fossil coal. However, the PPA power would likely have
>>>>> to be distributed in a decentralized, on-site fashion and on a scale much
>>>>> smaller than the typical gigawatt power plant.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not my interest to employ gasification as the fuel product, but as
>>>>> part of the process to produce a transportable, exportable, friable, solid
>>>>> fuel from the feedstocks. My review of the gasification industry shows
>>>>> that the technology for producing the "bio-coal" is mature and readily
>>>>> available. However, it doesn't appear there are small scale, power-plants
>>>>> suitable for on-site power production. Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again, and Bioenergylists is one of the best forums on the web.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:35 AM, doug.williams
>>>>> <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *Hi Kenny,*
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *You ask*:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel
>>>>> > (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > *Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing
>>>>> > interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to
>>>>> > consider a number of options. **Tell us more. because there is a huge gap
>>>>> > between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs
>>>>> > stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is
>>>>> > the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the
>>>>> > capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing
>>>>> > biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the
>>>>> > gas, boiler of engine power generation? *
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the
>>>>> > future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and
>>>>> > your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.*
>>>>> > **
>>>>> > *Doug Williams,*
>>>>> > *Fluidyne.*
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> >
>>>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> >
>>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 11
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:37:21 -0700
>>>>> From: "Phil Marsh" <marshbros at mcbridebc.com>
>>>>> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>> Message-ID: <000001cda6f4$c21094b0$4631be10$@com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Dr. Reed:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is charcoal not just a specific type of biocoal? (as in biocoal made from wood) Or are you specifically saying biocoal is a term only used to describe a product that is torrefied as opposed to fully carbonized as a standard version of charcoal would be?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Marsh
>>>>>
>>>>> Marshbros.
>>>>>
>>>>> 250 569-7858
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Reed
>>>>> Sent: October-10-12 6:23 AM
>>>>> To: doug.williams; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>>> Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; <Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Small scale power plants?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Biocoal isNOT charcoal! It contains 80% of the energy in the original wood, but is friable, easily compressed, briquettes or fired as a powder in utility boilers by itself or as an aid to better combustion of powdered coal.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Reed
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas B Reed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 1:35 AM, "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kenny,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone aware of a US commercial producer of small-scale, solid-fuel (bio-coal fired) power plants in the 1 to 20 MW range?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please define your version of bio-coal, as it can have differing interpretations. It suggests charcoal, if so, one might expect for you to consider a number of options. Tell us more. because there is a huge gap between raw and "pre-charred" fuel gasification. Your range of outputs stretch credibility to supply a pre-carbonized fuel for 20MWe, so what is the direction of your enquiry? Possibly you are researching the capabilities of the technology, but 1-20MWe is rather big when discussing biomass gasification systems. You might also comment on the end use of the gas, boiler of engine power generation?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This forum has an affinity with discussing these issues, because the future needs what we may be able to do, given the right challenges, and your question should trigger off comment from the accumulated expertise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug Williams,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fluidyne.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 12
>>>>> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:43:32 -0300
>>>>> From: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
>>>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification of Corn cob
>>>>> Message-ID: <8D2E38E8D32A47959238F410FB90BDC8 at usera594fda0bf>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Tom
>>>>>
>>>>> I would agree with you that a Top Lit Updraft Gasifier, operated in a batch mode would be great for producing "Heating Grade Gas" (HGG), when there was a desire to also produce charcoal. However, if Masi was interested in maximum use of the corncobs for producing HGG, then a "top lit gasifier system" would not appear to be the best approach, because the charcoal left over would be undesirable. Additionally, there is the problem of a "batch operation."
>>>>>
>>>>> If Masi wanted a gasifier system to produce a woodgas suitable for powering an Internal Combustion engine, I cannot see how the Top Lit Gasifier could possibly produce an Engine Grade Gas. (EGG) I would suggest that it would have excessive tar, that would make it useless for fuelling an IC Engine. Additionally, there is the inherent problem of the batch nature of the TLUD gasifier.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I see it:
>>>>> 1: The TLUD gasifier is great for use with a close coupled burner system, where there is a wish to produce a residual charcoal, and where batch operation is acceptable.
>>>>> 2: A TLUD gasifier is not appropriate for producing Engine Grade Gas, because of an unacceptably high tar content.
>>>>> 3: A TLUD gasifier is not appropriate unless it is desired to produce a charcoal by-product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I might be missing something, but do you know of any way that a TLUD can produce engine Grade Gas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Thomas Reed" <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification of Corn cob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Dear Masi
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have never run a gasifier on corn cobs, but I believe they would be an excellent fuel as long as the moisture content is <15%. Be sure to operate lighting the TOP of the pile so that the char sits above the unburned fuel.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Write me -send a picture- if you can.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yours truly,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Tom Reed
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thomas B Reed
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:02 AM, masi karuppu <masikaruppu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Dear Sir,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I would like to know about the operating performance of a gasifier
>>>>> >> which works on Corn cob as fuel input.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks and regards
>>>>> >> K.Subramaniam
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>>>> >>
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>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>>>>> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>>> >
>>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gasification mailing list
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 26, Issue 6
>>>>> *******************************************
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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