[Gasification] Fwd: RE: Whole log pyrolysis for char production was Re: W...
Thomas Reed
tombreed2010 at gmail.com
Fri Jan 3 04:38:42 CST 2014
Dear GF and all
There would not be much absorbtion in the short (crosswise) path through the smoke, but possibly half going longitudinally.
Tom Reed
Thomas B Reed
280 Hardwick Rd
Barre, Ma 01005
508-353-7841
> On Jan 3, 2014, at 1:05 AM, GFWHELL at aol.com wrote:
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> Regarding the reflected heat from the refractory: If you were to travel on the footplate of a steam locomotive at full regulator, you might observe a temperature of 2,500 f in the fire box. in which there is generally a refractory (brick) arch above the grate which extends the flame pattern and generally helps the secondary air entering above the grate to insure compete combustion. I have observed these arches to glow bight Yellow, the surface of the brickwork actually melting with the heat. I am certain the radiation has a lot to do with complete combustion. Would this form of radiation help refine "smoke" (gas) breaking it down into short chain Molecules?
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> GF
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> In a message dated 1/2/2014 3:35:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za writes:
> Paul,
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> I designed a diesel burner for preheating a bubbling fluidised combustor about 12 years ago. Fortunately I took advice from an old and experienced engineer who advised that we had to line the fire box with refractory. When questioned why, his explanation was as follows: the diesel burns and gives off radiant heat to the wall. The wall heats up and radiates heat back toward the flame. The incoming radiation from the refractory is what evaporates and heats the diesel so that it is able to burn nearly completely (as opposed to the smoky start when the refractory is cold). I suspect that Rolf’s refractory does much the same thing in that it sends radiation back into the log. This heating effect is frequently underestimated as to its assistance with the whole combustion process. We also use this effect in the first portion of wall above the bubbling fluid bed level to provide radiation into the secondary air combustion area. Above this we build a membrane wet wall boiler. As with Rolf, our secondary air is aimed downward as we run the bubbling bed under a slight vacuum.
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> I am looking forward to seeing Rolf’s photos.
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> Rex
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> From: Paul Anderson [mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu]
> Sent: 27 December 2013 04:49 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Gasification] Fwd: RE: Whole log pyrolysis for char production was Re: Wood heating in the UK - whole log gasification
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> Dear all,
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> This excellent reply below came from Rolf. Thank you!!
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> Pictures only after 6 January, but by then I am in Africa and might not remember to request that Rolf send them. Together, we should be able to get this worked out.
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> We definitely should have some other people replicating this and suggesting solutions for char removal, etc. And there should be some examination of the pyrolyzed log concerning the char in the center verses the char at the edges, and % yield (by weight).
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> Paul
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> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
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> Subject:
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> RE: Whole log pyrolysis for char production was Re: [Gasification] Wood heating in the UK - whole log gasification
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> Date:
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> Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:50:06 +0100
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> From:
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> energiesnaturals <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
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> Reply-To:
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> energiesnaturals <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
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> To:
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> psanders at ilstu.edu
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> Hallo Paul,
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> Thanks for your interest in our living room stove/boiler!
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> Because that's what it is.
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> I build this one and quite a few more many years ago in the pre pellet area.
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> It is not really a big thing but just what i said in my 1. Description for Ken.
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> An airtight firebox with controlled primary and secondary air, both preheated by the non insulated air and water xchanger above the burning chamber.
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> The primary 60% is used to regulate the gasification ( remember it is an all night heater on one log) and the secondary actually burns the develloping gas.
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> The escape hole is central in the dome. The admission pipes of 2.air are offset and aimed at a 30 deg.downwards to create a turbulance and thus allow for a quite complete combustion before the gas leaves the hot area. We use mainly white pine, p.halepensis, airdried or so-so and we clean the conducts every 2. year or so, it burns so clean.
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> After 1-3 h, depending on the log, you can find the remaining carbon in more or less the shape of the log.
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> We do not use the char at present, cause it would be a mess to take it out inside the living room...,but if we put in the last log around midnight and close all the 1. And most of the 2nd air once it is lit, we are left with a good bed of embers for toasting our breakfast bread.
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> If our aim was to produce char , i should have incorporated a movable floor( no grate) to discharge it into a cooling device below or yes a grate and create a repeating cycle without the need to light the batch every time.
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> (Un-)luckily i cannot provide any pictures right now, because we spend a wonderful holydays at our doughter's in Budapest.
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> But if you want some, tell me after the 6th next year.
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> B.r.
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> Rolf
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> Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> escribió:
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> Dear Rolf, (and hello to Greg!!)
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> I am very interested in your method of whole log gasification. In particular, I am interested in your statement that the pyrolysis occurs first (or mostly first is fine), leaving the char to either be consumed (char gasified) or removed. My interest is in removing / saving the char for a variety of other purposes, including possible use as biochar. (I am interested in using the heat, but that can be treated as a separate topic.)
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> Therefore, I am sending this message to the Biochar Listserv. But because relatively few people subscribe to both lists, I (and Ron Larson and Tom Miles) will relay your reply to the Biochar List. Eventually these messages could be taken off of the Gasification List and just continued with the Biochar list, but let's see what develops.
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> Could you please provide some:
> some photos,
> construction plans if available,
> and some data on what percentage of char is yielded from the dry weight of the feedstock logs.
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> I am content with using cordwood that is smaller than the 45 cm diameter that you mention, so any comments about the good or bad of using 10 cm or 25 cm diameter feedstock would be appreciated.
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> Although as you say it is "a tad late", I will count your message and replies among my most treasured presents received this year for Christmas!!
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> Paul
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> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
> On 12/26/2013 5:16 PM, energiesnaturals wrote:
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> Merry Christmas Ken and list ( I am aware that I am a tad late)
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> One way to burn whole logs like we do (45cm across x 55 cm long) in an efficient way is to build a well closed ,dome shaped burning chamber out of 15 cm fire brick and have individually regulated, preheated primary and 2,dary air , at least 2 pipes either side.
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> You build up afire with kindling as you describe it and after 15 min you can add an entire log of pitchy pine and it will first gasify very nicely and than burn the charcoal if you want.
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> The secret is to keep the walls of the combustion chamber warm and do not use them as heat xchangers!
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> You build a convenient xchanger above it and use the hot exhaust gas. Build it large enough to reduce the exhaust temp to 90 deg C or less and you will be way above 50 % eff. Ours has been working for 20+ years and is still doing fine with 2 mm black steel pipes.
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> We never cut anything below 55 cm long and never split anything below 45 cm, believe me or come and see!
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> Cheers and a happy new year
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> Rolf
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> Enviado desde Samsung tablet
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> Ken Boak <ken.boak at gmail.com> escribió:
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> Greg
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> Thanks for sharing.
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> I want to try a few ideas for myself to see if this is indeed possible on the small split logs I can produce locally.
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> Our heating needs, and indeed modest on account of the mild climate here, but I would like to find an efficient solution for all the thousands of acres of neglected coppiced hardwood. Cast iron victorian stoves may be quaint, but I am sure there are ways to improve the overall efficiency with radical redesign.
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> The main burner/heat exchanger on our 24kW gas boiler is no bigger than a gallon paint tin. Perhaps there is design lesson to be learned here
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> Anything to reduce mechanical handling and processing of wood fuels has to be a step in the right direction
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> Happy New Year
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> Ken
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> On 26 December 2013 19:22, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Greetings Ken, and list members.
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> Ken, I'm going to point you to a video of the "underside" of a whole log (or split) "cordwood as we call it here" stove that is a downdraft gasifier.
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> I can speak at length privately, however only somewhat on list, as this is a proprietary design.
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> Here's the link to the video:
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> http://youtu.be/DNYCfgEdYpg
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> Greg Manning
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> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Ken Boak <ken.boak at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Happy Christmas to the gasification list.
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> At this time of year, during the festive holiday season, I get a bit more time to manage the running of our woodstove, as it rapidly warms the room and produces a cheery effect.
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> Our property is fairly conventionally heated by natural gas, but a few years back, I took the decision to invest in a woodstove with back-boiler, to provide an alternative or back-up to the gas fired system.
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> The woodstove has a flat steel tank at the rear, the "back boilerr", in place of a couple of the firebricks lining. This circulates heated water entirely by the thermosyphon principle to a radiator located in the bedroom/workroom directly above the stove. So in effect the stove heats the living room/kitchen area directly, and the room upstairs by circulating hot water.
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> No electricity is required for circulation, and if worse-case we had an extended power outage, this stove would provide heat and comfort in the two main occupied areas of the house. Stoking it and attending it is often more interesting than what is being shown on TV!
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> With a few days off work, I have had time to monitor the stove and make some assessments of its overall performance. Its a fairly traditional stove, a rectangular box,, made from bolted together cast iron panels and partly lined with firebrick. It's described as a multifuel stove - having been supplied with a cast iron removable grate for burning coal - which is not used when burning wood. It's approximately 24" wide, 12" deep and 18" tall.
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> In the UK, a common size for firewood logs, intended for the domestic woodstove is about 10" (254mm) long, and equal to a 1/4 round taken from a limb that may have been 5 or 6" in diameter. The reason for this is that there is a lot of coppiced hardwood, which has become mis-managed in the last 20 years, so there are a lot of trees with 6" diameter shoots. The popularity of the "firewood processor" machine, means that a lot of this wood is now coming on the market as domestic firewood, and sold to suburbanites at vastly inflated prices (about $0.50 per kilo).
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> I am burning a mixture of kiln dried Silver Birch, and air dried other species which includes ash, oak and sweet chestnut. The silver birch splits well and makes excellent kindling. One log is split into 8 or 10 kindling sticks and these are built into a pyramid around 2 or 3 sheets of scrunched up newspaper. Lighting is quick and easy - as the birch is kiln dried, and within 5 minutes you will have a roaring fire and the larger logs can be added.
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> The logs have an average weight of approximately 1 kg. I have found that a normal burn rate of these is two per hour. I burn two at a time, and each hour, add a further two to the burning char bed from the previous logs. With firewood having a calorific value of approximately 4kWh/kg - I estimate the fuel input is in the order of 8 to 10kW.
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> Of course, with a traditional stove, so much of the heat energy is lost up the chimney, and goes to create the draft. The efficiency of the stove, might be in the region of 50% - somewhat better than the open wood fire. It occurred to me that by way of a 2 stage gasification process, it would be possible to increase the overall system efficiency, resulting in less wood consumption, or more heat output per log.
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> This leads to a question - is it possible to design a gasifier aimed at handling whole log gasification - where a log is 10" long and no more than 6" across? Can you recreate the temperatures, turbulence and reactants, found within the combustion zone of the woodstove, and use this to thermally process a single firewood log, at the rate of one every 30 minutes or so?
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> I've had some ideas on how this can be done, effectively using a length of 6" diameter stovepipe/fluepipe to make a compact gasifier. Logs would be loaded in from the top, and the length of the pipe chosen to perhaps hold 4 logs at any time - about 1m (40") tall. The bottom log would sit in the combustion zone - so the end of this log is constantly under the action of the air nozzles. The logs above are subjected to the elevated temperatures and begin to pyrolise, char and split on their descent down the tube.
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> Beneath the combustion zone would be a fairly conventional hearth, and reduction zone, with the char supported by a grate below that. For an overall idea of the system - think of HS Mukundas open top gasifier.
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> Use of twin-wall stainless flue pipe would allow the air to be pre-heated in the outer annulus - adding to the overall efficiency. The hot syn-gas could be burned in whatever appropriate burner geometry deemed necessary for either radiant space heating or water heating with a suitable heat exchanger coil.
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> I hope to try to build a prototype of this over the next 10 days (a working gasification holiday?) and to see whether a log can be reduced in this manner. If all that is needed is heat, then the restrictions to produce a tar free gas need not apply. If one can use whole logs, without having to resort to woodchip - then this will be a considerable saving in mechanical handling and wood processing.
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> At the end of the day - this gasifying stove needs to be as simple to operate as the existing woodstove. Reloading with a couple of logs each hour, and no sophisticated need for fan- forced draft or electricity to operate. Draft would come from the chimney as per now - about 25 to 30 feet, 6" diameter.
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> If anyone has experience of something similar - please let me know.
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> Happy Holidays
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> Ken
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