[Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)

Sat May 17 00:51:14 CDT 2014

Thanks Sam.  I was close.

Kelly
On May 16, 2014 10:40 PM, "Sam C Weaver" <scweaver at protonpower.com> wrote:

>  Kelly,
>
>  Actually we heat to about 1000C but discharge at about 500C.
>
>  Thanks,
>
>  Sam
>  Dr. Sam C Weaver
> President
> Proton Power, Inc.
> 487 Sam Rayburn Parkway
> Lenoir City, TN 37771
>
> Phone: 865-389-4713
> Fax: 865-376-9002
> Email: scweaver at protonpower.com
> Website: www.protonpower.com
>
>
>
>  On May 17, 2014, at 1:36 AM, Kelly Burnham <
> kburnham at protonpowerbioenergy.com>
>  wrote:
>
>  Hello Art,
> We use electric resistance heaters.  We discharge at around 1000 C.
>
> Kelly
> On May 16, 2014 7:51 PM, "Art Krenzel" <phoenix98604 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>>  Kelly,
>>
>>  Thank you for joining the discussion.
>>
>>  Two additional quick questions - since it is a pyrolysis process
>> without oxygen or air, how do you generate the heat for the pyrolysis
>> process?  What temperature does the system operate at in the horizontal
>> mixer?
>>
>>  I look forward to your reply and am sure many others on the list will
>> have more questions regarding your process as well.
>>
>> Art Krenzel, P.E.
>> PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES
>> 10505 NE 285th Street
>> Battle Ground, WA 98604
>>
>> 360-666-1883   voice
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 22:38:02 -0700
>> From: kburnham at protonpowerbioenergy.com
>> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar +
>> hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)
>>
>> Hello All,
>> Kelly Burnham with Proton Power here.  I'd be glad to contribute where I
>> can, and in response to Art's questions:
>>
>> 'what type of biomass',  we've tested over 50 different types of biomass.
>> By and large most woody or herbaceous biomass works fine up to about 45%
>> MC.
>>
>> 'gasification style' is hydrous pyrolysis. No pure oxygen and no
>> oxidization agents. Slight positive pressure at discharge.  Horizontal
>> anger.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>> Kelly B.
>> On May 15, 2014 10:29 AM, "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
>>
>>  All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have invited Dr. Sam Weaver and Kelly Burnham of Proton Power, to join
>> this discussion so that you can answer your questions directly or they can
>> respond to your previous questions.  To review the thread to date see the
>> archives at
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/2014-May/date.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Visit the Proton Power website at http://www.protonpower.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> After several years of development Proton Power is working through  their
>> first year of a 750 kWe scale up plant at Wampler’s Farm Sausage in Lenoir,
>> Tennessee.
>>
>>
>> http://www.protonpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wamplers-Case-Study.pdf
>>
>>  Tom Miles
>>
>> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
>>
>> Portland, OR
>>
>> tmiles at trmiles.com
>>
>> www.trmiles.com
>>
>> www.gasifiiers.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gasification [mailto:
>> gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Art Krenzel
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:47 PM
>> *To:* Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar +
>> hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)
>>
>>
>>
>> Rex,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is always good to hear from you again.  I can always count on you to
>> come up with better, faster and cheaper ways to get things done.  $2/kg is
>> considerably different than $12/kg for hydrogen costs.
>>
>>
>>
>> What biomass feedstock and gasification style does PROTON POWER use to
>> produce such high hydrogen content syn gas?  I notice no nitrogen content
>> in the syn gas so I presume they are using pure oxygen as the oxidizing
>> agent.  Is it pressurized as well?  I see the photo on their website shows
>> a horizontal "pug mill" style mixer which I assume is their gasifier as
>> well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good to hear from you again.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  > From: rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za
>> > To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 07:59:13 +0200
>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar +
>> hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)
>> >
>> > Art,
>> >
>> > You are correct about making hydrogen from methane particularly at the
>> > $4/MMBTU level seen in the USA. However, this is only strictly true on
>> large
>> > scale. At small scale gasification is an order of magnitude cheaper than
>> > steam methane reforming. When I made enquiries about a small (75bpd)
>> > hydrotreater, I was given a rough cost of $10m with a further
>> approximately
>> > $8m for the SMR. Needless to say, I nearly fell off my chair! Some of
>> the
>> > issues were that the design of a hydrogen plant is by its very nature
>> > expensive. Then there are materials of construction - stainless steel.
>> Then
>> > there are the safety aspects that require as much instrumentation as a
>> 2000
>> > bpd plant. One comment I got was "do they make hydrogen compressors that
>> > small?".
>> >
>> > Proton Power claim to have a process that produces 65% H2, 30% CO2 and
>> 5% CO
>> > starting at the 250kWe scale. It is a very small step from there via
>> > pressure swing absorption to get 99.9% hydrogen. PSA equipment does
>> exist at
>> > small scale and they have the compressors for compressing syngas. This
>> > should produce hydrogen at the $2/kg level rather than the methane SMR
>> route
>> > of $12/kg.
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> > Rex
>> >
>> > Dr. Karve,
>> >
>> > Being able to technically generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon
>> in a
>> > water gas reaction does not make the process economically competitive.
>> >  Typically, the use of incandescent carbon is a batch, cyclic process
>> which
>> > produces pulses of gases which vary in purity over each cycle
>> >
>> > Compare the economics of using a batch feedstock which has a variable
>> > composition to one which has a very pure, low cost feedstock (CH4) day
>> in
>> > and day out.  As a process designer, you can readily see that even
>> through
>> > the chemistry works out to generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon,
>> the
>> > day to day practicality of operating a multistage process with such a
>> > variable feedstock is much more difficult and more expensive.
>> >
>> > Art,
>> >
>> > You make a very valid point, particularly on large scale equipment.
>> However,
>> > down at small scale, you cannot beat the competitiveness of
>> gasification as
>> > a hydrogen producer. It is an order of magnitude less than going the SMR
>> > route using methane.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> > http://www.avast.com
>> >
>> >
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