[Gasification] time to Skype chat? (10-min.)

Sun May 18 10:47:35 CDT 2014

 There are a series of questions that arise to those who face this technology, such as:
Capital and operating cost, what is done with the contaminants in the produced gas stream, i.e. tars, water, organic acids typically found in this type of reaction. 
Overall mass/energy balance, 
Maintenance, 
ash discharge and composition, notably carbon residue and how is it dealt with? 
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc. 

-----Original Message-----
From: darius_tamizi <darius_tamizi at hotmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>; mark <mark at ludlow.com>
Sent: Sat, May 17, 2014 5:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] time to Skype chat? (10-min.)

       Dear Kelly,

 Is'nt it very electric consumption and it required a very good heater? Or the heater will damage in a very short time.

 Regards,

 Darius

  Terkirim dari Samsung Mobile

 -------- Original message --------
 From: Kelly Burnham 
 Date:17/05/2014 10:16 PM (GMT+07:00) 
 To: mark at ludlow.com 
 Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification  
 Subject: Re: [Gasification] time to Skype chat? (10-min.) 

  Not sure if I'm replying to Mark or Art here...
 We use electric resistance heaters to operate around 1000 C.
 Kelly

   From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Art Krenzel
 Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:50 PM
 To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
 Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)

  Kelly,

  Thank you for joining the discussion.

  Two additional quick questions - since it is a pyrolysis process without oxygen or air, how do you generate the heat for the pyrolysis process?  What temperature does the system operate  at in the horizontal mixer?

  I look forward to your reply and am sure many others on the list will have more questions regarding your process as well.

 Art Krenzel, P.E.
 PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES
 10505 NE 285th Street
 Battle Ground, WA 98604

 360-666-1883   voice

 Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 22:38:02 -0700
 From: kburnham at protonpowerbioenergy.com
 To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
 Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)
 Hello All,
 Kelly Burnham with Proton Power here.  I'd be glad to contribute where I can, and in response to Art's questions:
 'what type of biomass',  we've tested over 50 different types of biomass. By and large most woody or herbaceous biomass works fine up to about 45% MC. 
 'gasification style' is hydrous pyrolysis. No pure oxygen and no oxidization agents. Slight positive pressure at discharge.  Horizontal anger.
 Hope this helps.
 Kelly B.
  On May 15, 2014 10:29 AM, "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
    All,

 I have invited Dr. Sam Weaver and Kelly Burnham of Proton Power, to join this discussion so that you can answer your questions directly or they can respond  to your previous questions.  To review the thread to date see the archives at  http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/2014-May/date.html

 Visit the Proton Power website at http://www.protonpower.com/

 After several years of development Proton Power is working through  their first year of a 750 kWe scale up plant at Wampler’s Farm Sausage in Lenoir, Tennessee.
 http://www.protonpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wamplers-Case-Study.pdf
 Tom Miles
 T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
 Portland, OR
 tmiles at trmiles.com
 www.trmiles.com
 www.gasifiiers.bioenergylists.org

   From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Art Krenzel
 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:47 PM
 To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
 Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)

  Rex,

  It is always good to hear from you again.  I can always count on you to come up with better, faster and cheaper ways to get things done.  $2/kg is considerably different than $12/kg for  hydrogen costs.

  What biomass feedstock and gasification style does PROTON POWER use to produce such high hydrogen content syn gas?  I notice no nitrogen content in the syn gas so I presume they are using  pure oxygen as the oxidizing agent.  Is it pressurized as well?  I see the photo on their website shows a horizontal "pug mill" style mixer which I assume is their gasifier as well.

  Good to hear from you again.

 Art 

  > From:  rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za
 > To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
 > Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 07:59:13 +0200
 > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon diesel-equivalent?)
 > 
 > Art,
 > 
 > You are correct about making hydrogen from methane particularly at the
 > $4/MMBTU level seen in the USA. However, this is only strictly true on large
 > scale. At small scale gasification is an order of magnitude cheaper than
 > steam methane reforming. When I made enquiries about a small (75bpd)
 > hydrotreater, I was given a rough cost of $10m with a further approximately
 > $8m for the SMR. Needless to say, I nearly fell off my chair! Some of the
 > issues were that the design of a hydrogen plant is by its very nature
 > expensive. Then there are materials of construction - stainless steel. Then
 > there are the safety aspects that require as much instrumentation as a 2000
 > bpd plant. One comment I got was "do they make hydrogen compressors that
 > small?".
 > 
 > Proton Power claim to have a process that produces 65% H2, 30% CO2 and 5% CO
 > starting at the 250kWe scale. It is a very small step from there via
 > pressure swing absorption to get 99.9% hydrogen. PSA equipment does exist at
 > small scale and they have the compressors for compressing syngas. This
 > should produce hydrogen at the $2/kg level rather than the methane SMR route
 > of $12/kg.
 > 
 > Kind regards
 > Rex 
 > 
 > Dr. Karve,
 > 
 > Being able to technically generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon in a
 > water gas reaction does not make the process economically competitive.
 >  Typically, the use of incandescent carbon is a batch, cyclic process which
 > produces pulses of gases which vary in purity over each cycle
 > 
 > Compare the economics of using a batch feedstock which has a variable
 > composition to one which has a very pure, low cost feedstock (CH4) day in
 > and day out.  As a process designer, you can readily see that even through
 > the chemistry works out to generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon, the
 > day to day practicality of operating a multistage process with such a
 > variable feedstock is much more difficult and more expensive.
 > 
 > Art,
 > 
 > You make a very valid point, particularly on large scale equipment. However,
 > down at small scale, you cannot beat the competitiveness of gasification as
 > a hydrogen producer. It is an order of magnitude less than going the SMR
 > route using methane. 
 > 
 > 
 > 
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