[Gasification] conversion of CO2 into methane (Off Topic)

[Doug Williams]

Hi Dr. Karve and interested Gasification Colleagues,

Since we last wrote about your question, I have been trying to find the
project files for a couple of related projects that I was involved with
quite a few years ago to clean-up of Dairy yard waste effluent and
conversion of Steel Mill flu gas into liquid fuels. It set me thinking
to formulate a theory, and see if it could be tested.  I posed a few
questions to a friend of mine with a Degree in Cell Biology (experience
of testing North Sea sediments around oil well for pollution). This
morning via SKYPE, we talked for an hour, so I pass on the conclusions
to my theory.

Q1. Could random mutations occur to methanogens that might not fit
their calculated conversion ratios?

A. It is a distinct possibility that such a mutation might occur.

Q2. If such a mutation should occur in Institutional bio-digestor's used
for testing, can they then continue to inoculate all future testing if
unobserved?

A. It would be unlikely to be able to sterilize such equipment between
tests, and the mutation would contaminate or inoculate the ongoing
batch tests.

Q3. If the test were conducted remotely off-site in another
bio-digestor, might it be possible to see the gas ratios restore to the
lower previously calculated output?

A. This is a distinct possibility if based over time tested
calculations previously used. Institutional testing might have created
the perfect mutation to evolve which could affect the gas ratios. This
is practice within industry to selectively improve or develop required
out-comes. All care should be taken not to contaminate the remote
digester site via dirty foot wear or test sampling equipment. If
possible, gas samples from multiple digester’s would provide a better
comparative study. 
-------------

So Dr.Karve, I hope this might point you in another direction to answer
your question, that is if you have not already resolved the increased
gas ratio's. I doubt if I can contribute further, sad really, as
wider discussion brings forward innovation. 

Regards,
Doug Williams,
Fluidyne. 


On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 08:58:30 +0530
Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Doug,
>  Acetic acid is supposed to be the basic unit from which the methanogens
> produce methane. But the reaction produces CH4 and CO2, which theoretically
> should be in volumetrically equal proportion. We tested feeding a biogas
> plant with vinegar and found that we still get 60% methane instead of the
> theoretical 50%. That is why I thought that even the monocarbonic acid,
> namely H2CO3 might also be serving the methanogens as food. Anaerobic
> organisms also need oxygen, which they take from their food. From this
> point of of view, H2CO3 might also be serving the methanogens as food.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> 
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> 
> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
> 
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
> 
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Doug Williams <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi Dr Karve,
> >
> > Not sure you are directing your question to the right forum, but as it's
> > CO2 and methane, guess it qualifies, but never thought my own interest in
> > this humble cell form would be useful to anyone(:-)
> >
> > Archaea having been around for 3-4 billion years are the ultimate colonist
> > of any environment, survival being that they arrive at their destination
> > from where ever they come from. Even if there was not the chemistry present
> > to feed directly, they can also take in energy from Sunlight and convert
> > this to feed. Mutation is rapid, given the environmental chemistry would
> > also changing around them over a few million years or so. Time doesn't seem
> > to matter and they keep multiplying to suit their environment. They can now
> > be found in just about every thing on this planet,so I'm sure carbonic acid
> > was considered ideal nutrient.
> >
> > Given that your interest is of their participation in digestive processes
> > and the evolution of methane, one can only guess that the building blocks
> > allowing their evolution branching into bacteria one way, and eucaryota the
> > other, they had plenty of places to turn host nutrient into methane. My own
> > interest is their function within the human gut, evidenced by their methane
> > production and distinctive smell, and how they might be involved with the
> > matrix of peptides on which warm blooded cells of life forms build.
> >
> > It may be better to discuss this privately rather than be off topic.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Doug Williams,
> > Fluidyne.
> >
> >   On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 09:23:11 +0530
> > Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > When the archaea arrived on the earth, the earth's atmosphere had mainly
> > > nitrogen and carbon dioxide.  How did they survivet? I have been thinking
> > > on it.  CO2 forms H2CO3 when it combines with water.  Did they use this
> > > carbonic acid as food? (2H2CO3=CH4 + CO2)
> > > Yours
> > > A.D.Karve
> > > ***
> > > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > >
> > > Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
> > >
> > > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> > (ARTI)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Doug Williams <Doug.Williams.nz at gmail.com>
> >


-- 
Doug Williams <Doug.Williams.nz at gmail.com>