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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hmmm,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Ben a lot of "gas" generated on this topic but not
much useable energy! Chicken Little would feel right at home! I doubt that many
who buy the GEK expect to go into methanol production. Do I smell just a little
envy?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pannirselvam
P.V<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 29, 2010 1:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<br>
<b>Cc:</b> M@ry; Rajesh sk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> Tom ,Jim,Toby<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> We need happy end to the hot debate on syngas
2010<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> Many list member can agree
with me that public or private retrack statements is a correct
peaceful end as proposed by Jim as more damage
was being done to him and GEK, I can prove that this is not the
request of crew of Jim as some one put here , but independent
observer .Every member here has their voice heard , independent they
are from poor country or rich country , independent of person like me
with Phd , working with university or an technical person with elementary
school.The new social network make this possible via our lists with
equal rights .some are proved expert of the start of art
as much as Jim or more , but if one do not explained
well here , the experience alone can not make one for other
to follow as crew. We all here can not blindly follow with
hero workship of few people or expert or so called imaginary
Jim crew, even though he has world wide
network, disciples.wiki,fotoblog etc,There is no need for him
to use the power of his gasification crew against few
misunderstanding. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If he really use his syngas based hydrogen
globalizeded distributed network power as some one supect
here , our list can be innudated with emailsand .our list email system
could have exploded wiith this syngas based hydrogen explosives emails
and bda demage done to GEK and JIM could have disappeared<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> But , as Jim travel and know the
biodiversity , really respect all even one who misunderstand
too open minded , not too much commercial business minded , but
there is always limit to this .<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> Thus I wish especial new near to Jim and Toby , making
the debate live and the good side of this very hot debate<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jim even though , too much demaged his true image and
good motivation , has not asked public apology , but very educated and polite
to ask only publick retrack and I hopethat he accept too private retrack
,latter inform about the same <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> Making error is human , I hope the persons
misunderstood They can fell and be super human , if they can if not
publick retrack openly or at least send private email
retrack.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> I wish Jim accept this private re-track and
we will end this big mis understanding in our very big lists <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As really what we need for this list in the
new year is peace , progress, unity in diversity , respect for all list members
, including All the energy experts , academics like me , farmers ,
Small Energy enterprise owners .Our unity in diversity make our list very
especial and diferent as we need all, the more divesity much better for
the sustainable growth of our list.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Yours truely<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Dr.Panniselvam <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 5:52 PM, jim mason <<a
href="mailto:jim@allpowerlabs.org">jim@allpowerlabs.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 7:31
AM, Toby Seiler <<a href="mailto:seilertechco@yahoo.com">seilertechco@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> Tom,<br>
><br>
> Jim was right, I'm working on a machine that is intended to some degree to
integrate principles of making synthesis gas, so I have a vested
interest in his use of terminology used in marketing his
product that, I believe, contributes to a public misunderstanding.
I've asked Jim nice many times in the past to consider the differences
that Doug, Bill Klein, Greg and many other professionals on this list
have explained to Jim and myself years ago.<br>
><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>well toby, there you go again. and now you've also ignored
the raw<br>
data, in addition to the previous detailed description and logical<br>
argument. again, the comedy here is I AM NOT USING THE TERM SYNGAS TO<br>
DESCRIBE OR MARKET THE GEK.<br>
<br>
i posted the raw data relating to the use of the syngas term on the<br>
gek site. you glossed over it without impact on your claims. here
it<br>
is again below. i would like for you to respond to this data. and<br>
hopefully retract your statement that i am using this term to market<br>
the GEK currently, along with the assertion that i am actively trying<br>
to mislead about the nitrogen content in the gek gas (of which there<br>
is plenty).<br>
<br>
that represents the current state of affairs and representation.<br>
<br>
as for future states of affairs and representations, the more i look<br>
into the history of this term, its use internationally, and general<br>
movement in use academically, govt, commercially and popularly, i<br>
think i am going to start using it actively. the transition is<br>
actually much further along than i realized when i was just waving<br>
hands around here about it being a better term.<br>
<br>
but again, the current representation of the gek on our site does not<br>
use the term actively. please respond to the data i have presented.<br>
show some nuance. if we cannot respond reasonably to data clearly<br>
presented, description and argument clearly constructed, how are we<br>
every going to make meaningful progress on the problem of biomass<br>
thermal conversion? vocabulary might be the least of our problems<br>
here . . .<br>
<br>
here's the gek site term use inventory. you may have to click "show<br>
hidden" to see it.<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
below is an inventory of actual usage of the terms in<br>
question on the gek site. i've done this for the 8 most visited pages<br>
on the site, in order. i've then pulled out a much lower visited<br>
page, but the one where i thought my "sins" would be the most<br>
pronounced. this is the one where the details of gasification are<br>
explained. it is the 14th most visited page.<br>
<br>
as you will see, there is no sentence of the type "the GEK makes<br>
syngas". in actuality, the "syngas" term is barely even
used. in the<br>
top 8 pages, only 3 occurrances, 1 to note that "syngas" is one of<br>
many terms used for the gas, and 2 in passing while talking about<br>
mixing systems. in contrast, there are 82 occurrances of the term<br>
"gasifier", 28 occurrances of the term "gasification", 9
for "wood<br>
gas", 0 for "producer gas", 0 for "suction gas", 0 for
"synthesis<br>
gas". i'll even eliminate the two passing uses of the term while<br>
discussing mixing if that helps quell this nonsensical lexical<br>
tempest.<br>
<br>
more to your point, the selling pages have exactly 0 declarations that<br>
"syngas" is the gas being made by the GEK. that's right- zero.
the<br>
term is in not used anywhere to make a claim about the type of gas the<br>
gek makes, nor to promote its sale. not sure if this changes<br>
anything, but that's the data. as a man of science, i trust you will<br>
recalibrate your conclusions in relation to the real data.<br>
<br>
<br>
here's the detail inventory. it is done over the permanent content on<br>
each page. not rss feeds in the left column from elsewhere, which<br>
change constantly and not in my control (though i could find zero<br>
occurances of the "syngas" term there either).<br>
<br>
1. GEK gasifier home page: <a href="http://www.gekgasifier.com" target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com</a><br>
gasifier (9), gasification (4), syngas (1), wood gas (0), producer gas<br>
(0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
the "offending" syngas sentence at the bottom of
the page:<br>
"The system automatically adjusts syngas/air mixture via a wide band<br>
Bosch oxygen sensor, shakes the grate when needed, and removes ash via<br>
a mechanical auger.")<br>
<br>
2. How to make the GEK page: <a
href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/wood-gasifier-plans/" target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/wood-gasifier-plans/</a><br>
gasifier (8), gasification (3), syngas (0), wood gas (1), producer gas<br>
(0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
<br>
3. Power Pallet info and buy page:<br>
<a href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/gasifier-genset-skids/"
target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/gasifier-genset-skids/</a><br>
gasifier (19), gasification (3), syngas (2), wood gas (2), producer<br>
gas (0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
the two 2 syngas references are again in the context of<br>
talking about fuel/air mixing<br>
<br>
4. Store front: <a
href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/" target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/</a><br>
gasifier (8), gasification (3), syngas (0), wood gas (1), producer gas<br>
(0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
<br>
5. Wiki page with detail plans and CAD drawings on making and using<br>
the GEK: <a
href="http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123754/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier"
target="_blank">http://wiki.gekgasifier.com/w/page/6123754/How-to-Build-and-Run-the-GEK-Gasifier</a><br>
gasifier (8), gasification (3), syngas (0), wood gas (2), producer gas<br>
(0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
<br>
6. BEK biochar info page:<br>
<a href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/reactor-options/pyrolysis-biochar/"
target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/reactor-options/pyrolysis-biochar/</a><br>
gasifier (5), gasification (2), syngas (0), wood gas (2), producer gas<br>
(0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
<br>
7. Gasification Basics, intro to the tech:<br>
<a href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-basics/" target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-basics/</a><br>
gasifier (8), gasification (6), syngas (0), wood gas (0), producer gas<br>
(0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
the closest i get to sin here is:<br>
"Gasification is the use of heat to tranform solid biomass, or other<br>
carbonaceous solids, into a synthetic “natural gas like” flammable<br>
fuel.")<br>
<br>
8. Gasifier kits info and buy page:<br>
<a
href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/gasifier-systems-and-kits/"
target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-store/gasifier-systems-and-kits/</a><br>
gasifier (17), gasification (4), syngas (0), wood gas (1), producer<br>
gas (0), synthesis gas (0)<br>
<br>
<br>
Here's where i thought my biggest "sins" would be. This is the
page<br>
with the detailed explanation of how gasification works:<br>
<a href="http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-basics/how-it-works/"
target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com/gasification-basics/how-it-works/</a><br>
gasifier (8), gasification (18), syngas (2), wood gas (2), producer<br>
gas (1), synthesis gas (0), suction gas (1)<br>
there are 2 sentences with syngas. the "offending
sentences:<br>
"The gas produced by this method goes by a variety of names: “wood<br>
gas”, “syngas”, “producer gas”, “suction
gas”, etc."<br>
"This is why an engine run on syngas can have such clean emissions."<br>
<br>
<br>
those appear to be the facts from my neck of the woods. others are<br>
invited to review the above pages and point out where they think<br>
things are otherwise or should be changed. i'll happily change them,<br>
as i don't really have a horse in this race.<br>
<br>
percentage nitrogen density isn't really the relevant racetrack to<br>
work out the real issues with this tech.<br>
<br>
<br>
jim<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>>
_______________________________________________<br>
> The Gasification list has moved to<br>
> <a href="mailto:gasification@bioenerglists.org">gasification@bioenerglists.org</a>
- please update your email contacts to reflect the change.<br>
> Please visit <a href="http://info.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://info.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more news on the list move.<br>
> Thank you,<br>
> Gasification Administrator<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Jim Mason<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.whatiamupto.com" target="_blank">http://www.whatiamupto.com</a><br>
Current Projects:<br>
- Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): <a
href="http://www.gekgasifier.com" target="_blank">http://www.gekgasifier.com</a><br>
- Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: <a
href="http://www.escapefromberkeley.com" target="_blank">www.escapefromberkeley.com</a><br>
- ALL Power Labs on Twitter: <a
href="http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs</a><br>
- Shipyard Announce list:<br>
<a href="http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com"
target="_blank">http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
************************************************<br>
P.V.PANNIRSELVAM<br>
ASSOCIATE . PROF.<br>
Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator <br>
Computer aided Cost engineering<br>
<br>
DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química<br>
CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN<br>
Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970<br>
North East,Brazil<br>
*******************************************<br>
<a href="https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/">https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/</a><br>
and <br>
<a href="http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/">http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Fone ;Office<br>
84 3215-3769 , Ramal 210<br>
Home : 84 3217-1557<br>
<br>
Mobile :558488145083<br>
<br>
Email:<br>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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