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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>gents,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so let me get this straight, if a gas is to
be used as feed in a process it "could be termed" or better stated
it is termed synthesis gas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I see a major part of this discussion as
simple as this. Is Syngas as a word, an abreviated form of the word
Synthesis gas? Or are these two different words with different
connotaions. Untill this root element is settled you guys are going to
chase each other arround in circles forever and just beat each other up along
the way even if no harm is intended.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If they <STRONG>are </STRONG>the same, just
abreviated, then it seems pretty harmles to say that a biomas gasifier's out put
can be used as syngas. even though in most practical applications this is
not the intended use of the produced gas, <STRONG>but it can be. (below
you will find they are not)</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If they are not the same then it seem every one can
agree upon what synthesis gas is,, so then I see the root of the argument
(or shall I say discussion) to be the definition of the word Syngas as being
something different than a gas used as feedstock. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The bottom line is this these gasifiers in
discussion do not produce a stream of reliable flow of a specific like
compound.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>they do produce if built and operated correctly a
homoginoius flow of several compounds, the ratio's of which are everchanging and
as fickle as the wind or shall I say as fickle as the humidity that day. I
think that this somewhat homoginious mix has come to be called SYNGAS by some
regardless of its intended use, meaning that it is not the same (or an
abreviation) of synthesis gas which is specific to its use.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just some reasonable deduction there. as some
have alluded to the assumtion that the two words have or have not a similarity
in connotation or spelling. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>dicussions usually end when one goes to the
dictionary, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so to add some fuel to the fire, so to speak,
here is ,,, are you ready for a kind of funny coincidence,, I looked up the
definition of SYN on Dictionary.com , and have pasted it here below.
and low and behold, it even coincidentally uses the term in
question. as far as this source is concerned SYNGAS means SYNTHETIC
GAS. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so any haggeling over syngas coming out of a
gasifier is over, unless as previously stated someone wants to step
up and test their producer gas and show that it is indeed a steady flow of
a single compound that has specific freezing and boiling points, which we
all know isn't going to happen. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV class="sep_top shd_hdr pb7">
<DIV class=KonaBody>
<DIV class="lunatext results_content">
<DIV class=luna-Ent>
<DIV class=header>
<H2 class=me>syn-</H2><SUP></SUP> <SPAN id=nonfav><A id=fncyb
href="https://secure.reference.com/sso/register_pop.html?source=favorites"></A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=body>
<DIV class=pbk>
<DIV class=luna-Ent><SPAN id=hotword><SPAN id=hotword
onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'" name="hotword">a</SPAN>
<SPAN id=hotword onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
style="CURSOR: default; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
onclick="this.style.backgroundColor='#b5d5ff';return hotWord(this);"
onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">prefix</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
style="CURSOR: default; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
onclick="this.style.backgroundColor='#b5d5ff';return hotWord(this);"
onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">occurring</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
onclick="this.style.backgroundColor='#b5d5ff';return hotWord(this);"
onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'" name="hotword">in</SPAN>
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onclick="this.style.backgroundColor='#b5d5ff';return hotWord(this);"
onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">loanwords</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
onclick="this.style.backgroundColor='#b5d5ff';return hotWord(this);"
onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'" name="hotword">from</SPAN>
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">Greek,</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">having</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'" name="hotword">same</SPAN>
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'" name="hotword">as</SPAN>
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name="hotword">synthesis;</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">“synthetic”</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">compounds</SPAN> ( </SPAN><SPAN class=ital-inline><SPAN
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style="CURSOR: default; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"
onclick="this.style.backgroundColor='#b5d5ff';return hotWord(this);"
onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">syngas</SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN id=hotword>).
</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Lsentnce>
<DIV class=LImg></DIV>
<DIV class=Lis><A class=AU id=us onmouseover="linkOver(this,'qry');"
style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
onmouseout="linkOut(this,'qry');"
href="http://ask.reference.com/web?q=Use+syn-+in+a+Sentence&qsrc=2892&o=101993">Use
<B id=qry>syn-</B> in a Sentence</A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=imgres>
<DIV class=LImg></DIV>
<DIV class=Lis><A class=AU id=il onmouseover="linkOver(this,'iqry');"
style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
onmouseout="linkOut(this,'iqry');"
href="http://ask.reference.com/pictures?q=syn-&o=102285">See images of <B
id=iqry>syn-</B></A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=webres>
<DIV class=LImg></DIV>
<DIV class=Lis><A class=AU id=wl onmouseover="linkOver(this,'wqry');"
style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); TEXT-DECORATION: underline"
onmouseout="linkOut(this,'wqry');"
href="http://ask.reference.com/web?q=syn-&o=102284">Search <B
id=wqry>syn-</B> on the Web</A></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=tail>
<DIV class=var><SPAN id=hotword><SPAN id=hotword
onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">Also,</SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN><A style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sy-">sy-</A><SPAN id=hotword>,
</SPAN><A style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/syl-">syl-</A><SPAN id=hotword>,
</SPAN><A style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sym-">sym-</A><SPAN id=hotword>,
</SPAN><A style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"
href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sys-">sys-.</A></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<HR class=ety>
<DIV class=ety><B><I><SPAN id=hotword><SPAN id=hotword
onmouseover="this.style.cursor='default'"
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">Origin:</SPAN> </SPAN></I></B><BR><SPAN id=hotword>< <SPAN
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
name="hotword">comb.</SPAN> <SPAN id=hotword
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'"
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onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='transparent'" name="hotword">sýn</SPAN>
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</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=ety><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV
class=ety><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>having that said the argument above stands that it
can be called Synthesis gas, and that Synthetic or syngas can be derived from
the the </FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>synthesis gas, wood gas, town
gas, producer gas,,, U-name-it gas. From what I gater just dont call
producer gas Syngas as its not there yet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I also understand that in order to continue being productive means
marketing these things as this is my agenda as well and the alluer of a
catchy term that rolls off ones tounge is attractive, because many of us
in this discussion become sales people at some point, But we aren't
selling the sham wow at two in the morning.</DIV>
<DIV>I have been guilty for some time now my self as calling this stuff syngas--
no more, when all else fails speak the truth,, from now on I will market it as
producing low grade hydrogen gas. </DIV>
<DIV>On another side note this would be a good time to colectivly come up with a
good catchy name for this gas that not only encompasess its variable nature, but
more importantly promotes it. something like surface gas,,, or even beter
sun gas. something that would differentiate it from anything derived from
hydrocarbon deposits contained and trapped within the earth. I think that
it will become increasingly important in the future to make a clean break from
any continuity or associasion of this with fossil fuels. promotion with
agricultural non edible feedstock and highly managed forest practices is the key
to success. </DIV>
<DIV>I like it "Sun Gas" after all that is where the energy is coming from
without digging up and introducing a bunch of yester years carbon overloading
the system.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thoughts anyone??</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Greg Manning" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>a31ford@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "A Gasification (E-mail)" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:02
AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on
Wiki_</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> <BR>> <BR>> Kevin, we do NOT have to "Work toward
arriving at definitions", the<BR>> (Definitions) are already there (look them
up, and NOT on "wiki" try a<BR>> chemistry book), it's just that many among
us, attempt to use them<BR>> incorrectly (errantly or otherwise).<BR>>
<BR>> That is like saying "I use my pea sea to spiel cheque four me two
sea if my<BR>> words are correct".<BR>> <BR>> The above sentence
uses "correct" words, BUT not in the correct context.<BR>> (as I would assume
you wood no, LMAO !)<BR>> <BR>> The context of the many types and
forms of gases, are VERY well known, and<BR>> the information is all there,
it's the use of the words that needs the<BR>> arriving at.<BR>> <BR>>
Greg Manning,<BR>> Canadian Gasifier Ltd. (</FONT><A
href="http://www.cangas.ca"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.cangas.ca</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>)<BR>> Building
Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001<BR>> <BR>> Brandon, Manitoba,
Canada<BR>> 1 (204) 726-1851<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: Kevin
[mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net]<BR>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:17
AM<BR>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; </FONT><A
href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>a31ford@gmail.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>> Subject: Re:
[Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Dear Bill<BR>>
<BR>> Would you agree that any device that gasifies material is a
"gasifier"?<BR>> <BR>> Would you agree that any gas being produced by such
a gas producer is<BR>> "Producer gas"?<BR>> <BR>> Would you agree that
if the composition of the gas produced was such that it<BR>> could be used
for synthesizing other products that it could be termed<BR>> "synthesis
gas"?<BR>> <BR>> Lets work toward arriving at definitions, rather than
slamming or supporting<BR>> people.<BR>> <BR>> Kevin<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Bill Klein" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:Bill_Klein@3iAlternativePower.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Bill_Klein@3iAlternativePower.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> To: <</FONT><A href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>a31ford@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;
"Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"<BR>> <</FONT><A
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 11:26 AM<BR>> Subject:
Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>><BR>>>
Content analysis details: (0.0 points)<BR>>><BR>>>
pts rule
name
description<BR>>> ---- ----------------------
----------------------------------------------<BR>> ----<BR>>>
0.0 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from
MS Outlook<BR>>><BR>>> Well said, Greg!<BR>>><BR>>>
During this discussion several well meaning folks have alluded to
the<BR>>> rationalization that states if an academic paper uses the term
"syngas"<BR>>> rather than "producer gas" or if a governmental body does
the same, it<BR>>> becomes some sort of proof positive that the terms are
not only<BR>>> interchangeable, but we can ignore specificity in favor of
a simple catch<BR>>> all generic term. All because some professor wrote a
paper and, though<BR>>> well<BR>>> intentioned, ignorantly used the
wrong word!!? Or someone in the<BR>>> government<BR>>> demonstrating
equal ignorance?<BR>>><BR>>> What a joke!<BR>>><BR>>>
Let's face it. Those that can, do! and those that cannot, teach!
Those<BR>>> that<BR>>> cannot teach work for the government. It's
that simple.<BR>>><BR>>> Producer gas, by any other name is still
producer gas and if you don't do<BR>>> a<BR>>> good job making it,
the resulting mess is sticky, smelly and unhealthy.<BR>>><BR>>> We
manufacture gasifiers. We test the hell out of them before we ship
them<BR>>> in order to ensure each makes the correct amount of producer
gas!<BR>>><BR>>> Have a gassy New Year!<BR>>><BR>>> Bill
Klein,<BR>>>
3i<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>>> From: "Greg Manning" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>a31ford@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>> To:
"'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"<BR>>> <</FONT><A
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:31 AM<BR>>>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on
Wiki_<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> LMAO
Jeff.<BR>>><BR>>> You hit two nails with the same
hammer.<BR>>><BR>>> Shells' claim is that it "cleans" (their
N2 is in the form of a<BR>>> "recumbent<BR>>> NOx format", that
"Boosts" performance to the point of a clean combustion,<BR>>> as per say,
like a hot-rodders's "NOX" add-on).<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Jim's statement (that you included below) Is yet again a form of<BR>>>
deflection, (incorrect of course), Or should I say,
Correct.......<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> N2 content
is EXACTLY the differentiation between "SYNGAS" and "Producer<BR>>>
Gas"<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Heck,<BR>>><BR>>> There's Town gas, Lime gas, Produced gas, Producer
gas, Coal gas, Wood<BR>>> gas,<BR>>> Piped gas, Charcoal gas,
Synthesis (Syn) gas, Lamp gas, Heating gas,<BR>>> Municipal gas, Queen's
gas, Lamp lighters gas, Crier's gas, and finally,<BR>>> Natural
gas.<BR>>><BR>>> And as Bill Kline added, the "new and Improved"
"GEK Gas" as a tongue in<BR>>> cheek addition to the already rampant list
above.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I'm Tired, of people
trying to display a "cow" as a cow that is "New and<BR>>> Improved"
version (chocolate ?), don't muddy the already bad waters of<BR>>>
gasification, with cross-gendered, yuppie-flavored, names of gases
that<BR>>> simply ain't
so.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I hate to say it, but...
"It's people like you, that have given<BR>>> gasification the bad name it
already has with investors, with your "pie in<BR>>> the sky
claims"".<BR>>><BR>>> Jim, run your "Syngas" un-stripped in an FT
process, (that works), THEN, I<BR>>> will relinquish the "the moon" to
you....(you will deserve it, for your<BR>>> advances in the quantum
mechanics of physics).<BR>>><BR>>> Greg Manning,<BR>>>
Canadian Gasifier Ltd. (</FONT><A href="http://www.cangas.ca"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.cangas.ca</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>)<BR>>> Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since
2001<BR>>><BR>>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada<BR>>> 1 (204)
726-1851<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>> From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>>
[mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of
Jeff<BR>>> Davis<BR>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:35
PM<BR>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<BR>>>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Dear All,<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> As a side note; I drive by a
gasoline station, maybe Shell, that puffs<BR>>> that they're gasoline has
nitrogen added. Interesting...<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> H. N.
Y.,<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Jeff<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 21:07 -0800, jim mason wrote:<BR>>>> percentage
nitrogen density isn't really the relevant racetrack to<BR>>>> work out
the real issues with this
tech.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
--<BR>>>
________________________________________________<BR>>><BR>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.puffergas.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>www.puffergas.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>><BR>>> Sent from any port in the storm via Acer
netbook & Ubuntu Remix.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
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