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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Hi Gerald,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>You bring an interesting "slant" to this
discussion, and as I initiated it, feel obliged to dig into my files to seek
some answers.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>I have followed the discussion on the
definition of syngas (synthesis gas) with great interest. Although there
are adamant views that syngas should be narrowly defined, I have yet to see
early references that back up this claim. The term "synthesis gas" appears
to have gained popularity during the '40's (possibly before) to describe the raw
material for the FT process; however, it quickly became the popular term for
manufactured gas. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2>There appear to be no reference to syngas
in any of my reference material until the FT process, or gas production for
chemical feed stock after 40's.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> In the second edition of the iconic
Kirk-Othmer, Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology, one is directed to the chapter
on manufactured gas when looking for synthesis gas (see vol. 10, p. 355, 1966),
where it is mentioned to produce synthetic chemicals from the water gas and
water gas shift reactions. In Riegel's, Industrial Chemistry, 1962, a list
of synthesis gas methods are listed that mimic manufactured gas and includes
gasification with air. And on p. 892, synthesis gas is simply defined as
the mixture of CO and H2. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>This is I think where the terminology may
have been taken less importantly by Chemical Engineers who can work with
anything, than the Mechanical engineers who actually had more to do with it's
manufacture and application as a source of energy.</STRONG></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2></DIV>
<DIV> <BR>> I respect the opinion of the members of this list, but could
you supply early references to back up your definitions. I believe that
this is an important issue to be cleared up, as there is definite confusion on
whether syngas should have a limited definition or a broad definition.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I had to read through considerable material in books, so have taken
a few days to assemble a few facts.<BR></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>In 1961, I rescued four bound volumes (V72 1930, V74 1931, V75
1932, V76 1933) of Power, a monthly magazine for engineers in the power
industry, published by McGraw-Hill.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>One might expect they also had a similar magazine for the chemical
engineers, possibly from a later date.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Having read these books from cover to cover more than once,
producer gas is the only term used, for the discussion of making gas using
air with steam in the case of coal, and nothing is discussed
using high pressure retorts and processes one associates with the term
syngas.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>These books reported all types of projects for energy production in
most countries, including engine development of many kinds, coal processing,
boilers, hydro, railways, and shipping. They are also a goldmine of information
of new products, patent applications, and people in the industry. Nothing on
Chemical Engineering.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Next I consulted the set of books issued in 1954 by "The
College of Fuel Technology" for Solid and Gaseous Fuels, the study of which
was required to pass the examinations of the City and Guilds of London
Institute. It covers all gas making from coal, and all you
need to know about coal as a fuel. They define producer gas as: A mixture
of combustible and non-combustible gases, the proportions of which may vary over
wide ranges.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Gas producers are covered in my set of Engineering Works Practice
(1950's) published by George Newnes of London, again only producer gas is
mentioned. These volumes provide operating instructions for engineers taking
charge of factories. In my 1965 copy of Fowlers Mechanical Engineers Pocket
Book, producer gas is defined as: Made by passing air, or air and steam through
red hot coke, making 34.7% CO, and 65.3 Nitrogen. They quote the water bottom
producers as better, free of clinkering problems with, CO2 4.2%, CO 25.2%, H2
22.6%, Nitrogen 44%.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Finally, the 1984 " Small Scale Gas Producer Engine Systems"
Albrich Kaupp/John Goss, (ISBN 3-528-02001-6) published by Gate a special
division of GTZ, the German Technical Cooperation agency, review the history of
gasification, and review nearly 600 papers, but syngas is not covered at
all, because all producer gas as we have come to understand it, contains
nitrogen. This publication is also the source from which I extracted
the analysis of Pyrolisis Gases and chemical content requested by Dr Karve,
which was sent directly to him.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>There would appear to be a need for closer scrutiny of any process
that describes it's gas as syngas, which clearly is used to jolly up the
unsuspecting investors. I didn't invent either term, but at some point in time,
someone lumped the two process incorrectly, and it has continued due to lack of
attention to the non-combustible gas content. While we may seek accountability
from those with failed projects, it is more important to have
accountability before an event, because it prevents incorrect presentation.,
that is "IF"the scrutiny can be applied. Having said all that,
possibly more interest in the differences will emerge, and some correction made
to how we should describe what we do.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>It might help this discussion, if anyone can identify functioning
chemical processes that use producer gas with nitrogen content as
feedstock,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Hope this may be of assistance.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Doug Williams,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Fluidyne Gasification.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>