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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I remember watching an episode of the twilight zone
in which the average joe, father, husband,employee becomes left behind by a
rapidly changing language. starts off pequiliar just one word every
once in a while. His wife asks "if had a nice launch home form
work.?" , he ends up arguing with coworkers in following days ,, and
trying to correct his wife and children,, soon everyone is just
talking complete jibberish, and he realises that it is he that has fallen
behind. story ends showing the kids playing in the yard I believe,
camera pans back through a window and the man is curled up in his childs dark
closet, but in the beam of sunlight coming in the window, reading a childs
book by himself desperatly clinging to sanity, he had entered THE
TWILLIGHT ZONE. da.da.da.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gkutney@shaw.ca href="mailto:gkutney@shaw.ca">Gerald Kutney</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=Doug.Williams@orcon.net.nz
href="mailto:Doug.Williams@orcon.net.nz">'doug.williams'</A> ; <A
title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification'</A> ; <A title=gasification@bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@bioenergylists.org">gasification@bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:17
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] A small
literature review re: syngas</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Your
comments are very much appreciated. This discussion, though, just
illustrates the ambiguity out there on the term syngas and synthesis
gas. The literature in this sector does little to clarify the
situation. Therefore, one should not jump to conclusions if someone uses
syngas in a general sense. The simple term syngas does not imply that
someone is attempting to take advantage of “unsuspecting investors.”
Otherwise NETL and the American Gas Association may have to be lumped in with
this group, as I had shown by the earlier definitions. Developers have
enough problems without being questioned for the use of a word that recognized
organizations and references use in the same way. That said, investors
should always be leery of any claims, but the use of the word syngas is the
least of their problems.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Gerald<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>doug.williams<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:13
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification;
gasification@bioenergylists.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] A small
literature review re: syngas<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
Gerald,</SPAN></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">You bring an
interesting "slant" to this discussion, and as I initiated it, feel obliged to
dig into my files to seek some answers.</SPAN></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">>I have followed
the discussion on the definition of syngas (synthesis gas) with great
interest. Although there are adamant views that syngas should be
narrowly defined, I have yet to see early references that back up this
claim. The term "synthesis gas" appears to have gained popularity during
the '40's (possibly before) to describe the raw material for the FT process;
however, it quickly became the popular term for manufactured
gas. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">There appear to be
no reference to syngas in any of my reference material until the FT process,
or gas production for chemical feed stock after
40's.</SPAN></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> In the second
edition of the iconic Kirk-Othmer, Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology, one is
directed to the chapter on manufactured gas when looking for synthesis gas
(see vol. 10, p. 355, 1966), where it is mentioned to produce synthetic
chemicals from the water gas and water gas shift reactions. In Riegel's,
Industrial Chemistry, 1962, a list of synthesis gas methods are listed that
mimic manufactured gas and includes gasification with air. And on p.
892, synthesis gas is simply defined as the mixture of CO and H2.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">This is I think
where the terminology may have been taken less importantly by Chemical
Engineers who can work with anything, than the Mechanical engineers who
actually had more to do with it's manufacture and application as a source of
energy.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><BR>> I respect
the opinion of the members of this list, but could you supply early references
to back up your definitions. I believe that this is an important issue
to be cleared up, as there is definite confusion on whether syngas should have
a limited definition or a broad definition.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I had to read
through considerable material in books, so have taken a few days to assemble a
few facts.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">In 1961, I rescued
four bound volumes (V72 1930, V74 1931, V75 1932, V76 1933) of Power, a
monthly magazine for engineers in the power industry, published by
McGraw-Hill.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">One might expect
they also had a similar magazine for the chemical engineers, possibly from a
later date.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Having read these
books from cover to cover more than once, producer gas is the only term
used, for the discussion of making gas using air with steam in
the case of coal, and nothing is discussed using high pressure retorts
and processes one associates with the term syngas.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">These books
reported all types of projects for energy production in most countries,
including engine development of many kinds, coal processing, boilers, hydro,
railways, and shipping. They are also a goldmine of information of new
products, patent applications, and people in the industry. Nothing on Chemical
Engineering.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Next I consulted
the set of books issued in 1954 by "The College of Fuel Technology" for
Solid and Gaseous Fuels, the study of which was required to pass the
examinations of the City and Guilds of London Institute. It covers
all gas making from coal, and all you need to know about coal as a
fuel. They define producer gas as: A mixture of combustible and
non-combustible gases, the proportions of which may vary over wide
ranges.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Gas producers are
covered in my set of Engineering Works Practice (1950's) published by George
Newnes of London, again only producer gas is mentioned. These volumes provide
operating instructions for engineers taking charge of factories. In my 1965
copy of Fowlers Mechanical Engineers Pocket Book, producer gas is defined as:
Made by passing air, or air and steam through red hot coke, making 34.7% CO,
and 65.3 Nitrogen. They quote the water bottom producers as better, free of
clinkering problems with, CO2 4.2%, CO 25.2%, H2 22.6%, Nitrogen
44%.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Finally, the
1984 " Small Scale Gas Producer Engine Systems" Albrich Kaupp/John Goss,
(ISBN 3-528-02001-6) published by Gate a special division of GTZ, the German
Technical Cooperation agency, review the history of gasification, and review
nearly 600 papers, but syngas is not covered at all, because all producer
gas as we have come to understand it, contains nitrogen. This publication
is also the source from which I extracted the analysis of Pyrolisis Gases
and chemical content requested by Dr Karve, which was sent directly to
him.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">There would appear
to be a need for closer scrutiny of any process that describes it's gas as
syngas, which clearly is used to jolly up the unsuspecting investors. I didn't
invent either term, but at some point in time, someone lumped the two process
incorrectly, and it has continued due to lack of attention to the
non-combustible gas content. While we may seek accountability from those with
failed projects, it is more important to have accountability before
an event, because it prevents incorrect presentation., that is "IF"the
scrutiny can be applied. Having said all that, possibly more
interest in the differences will emerge, and some correction made to how we
should describe what we do.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">It might help this
discussion, if anyone can identify functioning chemical processes that use
producer gas with nitrogen content as feedstock,</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hope this may be of
assistance.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Doug
Williams,</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Fluidyne
Gasification.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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