<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Dear Bill, Doug, and all</div><div><br></div><div>As owner of the <a href="http://WoodGas.com">WoodGas.com</a> site, I have a very simple and clear set of names I use. </div><div><br></div><div>Synthesis gas is produced by oxygen (or steam) gasifiaction of wood, MSW, or other biomass forms, and contains very little N2.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Producer gas is produced by air gasifiaction of wood, MSW, or other biomass forms and contains typically 50% N2. </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.289062); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.222656); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.222656);"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562);"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Pyrolytic gas is produced by lower temperature (500-750C) air pyrolysis (TLUD) of the volatiles in wood, MSW, or other biomass forms, but leaving typically 20% charcoal as a valuable byproduct.</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562);"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562);"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, ADDITIONS OR SUBTRACTIONS?</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562);"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562);"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Tom Reed<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.289062); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.222656); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.222656); "> </span></span></span></div><div><br>Dr Thomas B Reed<div>President, The Biomass Energy Foundation</div><div><a href="http://www.Woodgas.com">www.Woodgas.com</a></div></div><div><br>On Jan 30, 2011, at 11:00 AM, "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dear Bill</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="Bill_Klein@3iAlternativePower.com" href="mailto:Bill_Klein@3iAlternativePower.com">Bill Klein</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 29, 2011 7:15
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Syngas, why
not just fix it?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">Hi, Kevin! </font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">I hope you are wintering well. Here, we
could use more snow and less cold.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"># And the Gasification List could use less
fog.</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">As for your questions about how I would
define the various gases you mentioned, I wouldn't. I leave that to those
with more spare time or with nothing better to do than engage in some
sort of mental masturbation. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"># I find your comment rather insulting. You hold
yourself out as an "Expert", but you refuse to be helpful, unlike
Doug, for example, who is being helpful with a difficult and confusing
issue. There is, in my opinion, a valid need for a clear definition of
various relevant terms. Most misunderstandings and arguements result from
misuse of terminology.</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>I build gasifiers. Our gasifiers successfully convert woody materials,
MSW, livestock manure, agricultural waste, EFB, coal, CCA, D&C, seed
oil processing waste and many more feedstocks and they do it well! and
cleanly. I would probably become insane if I had to give each gas a nane and,
besides, our customers care more about results than nomenclature. </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"># There are many others on the List, who build
gasifiers, but they don't blatantly use the List to promote their Commercial
Interests. </font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>Our industry is deprived of its market share, perhaps because there are
not enough of us working to improve the process and the architecture. I don't
know. I do, however, know that I have to get back to work. </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"># Wouldn't "Our Industry" be better off if it had
clear definitions of relevant terms?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"># Please try to be more helpful.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Kevin Chisholm</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>Respectfully, </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>Bill Klein</div>
<div>3i </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>-------- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="kchisholm@ca.inter.net" href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">Kevin</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:47
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Syngas, why
not just fix it?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dear Bill</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">How would you define Wood Gas, and Producer
Gas?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">How would you define "Syngas"? </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Is "Syn Gas the same as "Synthesis
Gas?"</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">If there is a difference, could you please
define each term, to eliminate confusion?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Thank you.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Kevin Chisholm</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="Bill_Klein@3iAlternativePower.com" href="mailto:Bill_Klein@3iAlternativePower.com">Bill Klein</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="Doug.Williams@orcon.net.nz" href="mailto:Doug.Williams@orcon.net.nz">doug.williams</a> ; <a title="gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 28, 2011 8:48
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Syngas,
why not just fix it?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">Well put, Doug</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">I would like to stick my oar into this
ever muddier pond. </font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">Diesel, kerosene, gasoline, petrol,
producer gas, syngas, woodgas and a rose . </font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>We know what these are, but, it seems, some who are not too familiar
with the words would do well to learn what each is rather than trying to
change something of which they have limited knowledge.</div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">Get over it and deal with reality!
</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman">East is east and west is west. Producer
gas is well known by those of us who spend their lives smelling it. I've
made syngas. Like most things, it doesn't smell like producer gas.
</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>Still not convinced? </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>A rose, by any other name is still a rose! </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>Respectfully, </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div>Bill Klein</div>
<div>3i </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="Doug.Williams@orcon.net.nz" href="mailto:Doug.Williams@orcon.net.nz">doug.williams</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of
biomass pyrolysis and gasification</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 28, 2011 6:37
PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Syngas,
why not just fix it?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"><strong>Hi Pete and
Colleagues,</strong></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><strong><font size="2" face="Arial">Seeing as you ask, this is what can
be offered:</font></strong></div>
<div><strong><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></strong> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">> This topic sure has taken up a lot of
time. </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"><strong>We can talk about multiple subjects
at the same time on this forum, and you select that which interests
you the most. However, there are not many who contribute enough to keep
minds interested in the mundane issues like correct use of
terminology.</strong></font></div>
<div><strong><font size="2" face="Arial"></font></strong> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">>Why not just fix it if y'all don't like
it the way it is?</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"><strong>This forum is an interest group and
has no mandate from any authorizing body to set standards or
definitions. We are also very International in our location, and
therefore subject to working within certain set standards, set by our
administrations.</strong></font></div><font size="2" face="Arial">
<div><br>> Earlier I suggested that the analysis of this
mystery gas might fit <br>> into some numbering system, as is done
with steel.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>We make gas that already has set boundaries as to it's
correct identification, but to create a system based on numbers would
require accurate gas analysis for everyone involved. Many factors can
affect the gas volumes,etc, depending on the scales of gas production,
and fuels used, plus seasonal variations that play havoc with the same
process. </strong></div>
<div> </div>
<div>> It seems to me that this group is the right one to do
it.<br>> One could at least deal with the top half dozen
components, couldn't one?</div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>Well, we certainly have plenty of knowledge, but we
see only a fraction of those belonging to this Forum contributing
informed comment. <br></strong>> <br>> Again, back to the steel
analogy--- we don't have any problems talking <br>> about A36, 1018,
W1, etc..</div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>Having been defined by the steel industry, makes it easy
for the steel fabricators to use numbers. Shock horror if you aren't
aware as an amateur fabricator, and only think of iron,steel, tool
steel, stainless steel, so not everyone who talks about the
subject, is on the same wave length. Like any technology, you have
to make the effort to learn about the differences, then be more
constructive in how you participate, <br></strong> <br>> Maybe,
a letter for the top component?<br>> Maybe a 2 tier system,; one for
those gases with N2 and one for those <br>> without?</div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>Producer gas, and Syngas identify these two gases, how
complicated is that to understand?<br> <br></strong>> Maybe
someone could at least tell me why this shouldn't be done now?</div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>Quite simply, it has been done, but clearly some would
rather ignore correct definitions for reasoning of their
own. The market place remains very confused by how gasification is
presented, and the EU took the initiative in 2008-9, to set
guidelines that can be used by all involved, and be more informed
with gasification projects. It's was a huge job, involved many
institutions, and is only a beginning to bring some order into the
implementation of gasification. The work has to be seen as
on-going, and maybe we can ask Harrie Knoef of BTG to explain their
progress, as I have current no on-line reference.</strong></div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div><strong>Doug Williams,</strong></div>
<div><strong>Fluidyne.</strong></div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div><strong></strong> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br> </div></font>
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