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<DIV>Gf, </DIV>
<DIV>you mentioned ---</DIV>
<DIV>This style of "GAS PUMP" could form the "suction system" required for
running the gas producer. No doubt the water will become flammable over a
period of time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>the second barrel as you described is vented to the atmosphere I assume
<DIV>I'm curiose,</DIV>
<DIV>how long does it take for the water to become flamable?</DIV>
<DIV>is it's flamability more linked to time or more linked to cycles?</DIV>
<DIV>how flamable can it become?</DIV>
<DIV>does this ever pose a threat of igniting through the vent?</DIV>
<DIV> Luke Gardner</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfwhell@aol.com href="mailto:gfwhell@aol.com">GF</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 31, 2011 8:57
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] DIY GtL</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial color=black size=2><WBR>Compressing flammable
gas obviously can be hazardous, however those who are familiar with making the
stuff will know the importance of the exclusion of "air" from any such
installation.<BR>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both"></DIV>
<DIV>Natural gas distribution, arrives for domestic use here, at about 45
psi.from the city main.and is regulated down to around 11" wg. for burner use.
This stuff is fairly nitrogen free being mostly methane and has a higher cal
value than the wood gas which is being debated. So 100
mm WG sounds a trifle low <BR> for burner operation unless
large pipes and burner jets are contemplated.</DIV>
<DIV>There for compressing the gas is the answer.</DIV>
<DIV>This can be safely achieved with the use of two (or more) 45 gallon
plastic drums planted under ground for convenience, fitted with the required
plumbing and a water pump system with pressure switch controls.</DIV>
<DIV>The idea is that one barrel is filled with water and is ready to
"suck" gas, the water pump transfers the water into the other barrel
drawing gas into the void being created as the water level drops..When
the water entering the second drum has expelled all of the contained
air in the second drum. This oscillating pumping system can begin.</DIV>
<DIV>With the use of good quality check valves, sealed float switches and the
use of "two pumps" (the requirement for solenoid valves can be
alleviated) </DIV>
<DIV>This style of "GAS PUMP" could form the "suction system" required for
running the gas producer. No doubt the water will become flammable over a
period of time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>GF </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Craig Kernan <craig@postcollapse.org><BR>To:
Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:25
am<BR>Subject: Re: [Gasification] DIY GtL<BR><BR>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_a15ab6af-76a0-4930-aca7-30d396335be1
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">I
would also like information <BR> <BR>Craig <BR> <BR>On
1/31/2011 1:44 AM, Li CHEN wrote: <BR>> Hi
Rolf, <BR>> <BR>> In China, there are hundreds of villages
using fuel gas > station...(gasifier --> producer gas --> pipe line
--> end user). <BR>> <BR>> I find some chinese documents
about using pipeline to provide producer > gas. <BR>> <BR>>
About pipeline part:, it uses: <BR>> <BR>> From gas tank to
end user, outside underground pipeline: high-density > polyehytlene
(designed life: 50 years). <BR>> <BR>> Inside or outside
ground pipeline: steel pipe. <BR>> <BR>> Pressure before end
user gas burner: 100mm H2O. <BR>> <BR>> I will send you
offlist some figures about the gas storage tank
figure. <BR>> <BR>>
Li <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Le 30/01/2011 19:39, Rolf Uhle a
écrit : <BR>>> Hallo Brian, Doug and
list, <BR>>> <BR>>> this looks amazing ! The filtering
seems to be very good. <BR>>> <BR>>> You and Doug seem
to have experience with stocking producer
gas. <BR>>> <BR>>> May I ask you some questions
? <BR>>> <BR>>> We have 5 separate houses/cabins on our
land , all of them with solar >> and <BR>>> individual wood
and /or almond shell burning fireplaces . <BR>>> All of them are
hidronic underfloor systems with hot sanitary water >> tanks
. <BR>>> <BR>>> The distances between these houses make
a central water heat >> distribution <BR>>> system rather
inviable. <BR>>> <BR>>> We are off grid and run
electricitywise on solar, wind and micro hydro. <BR>>> There is a
backup generator slow speed diesel running on
WVO. <BR>>> <BR>>> My idea is to connect all houses to a
single gassifier of around 40 >> -50 kW gas <BR>>> output and
store a few hours gas in a gasometer and have the gassy >> start
and <BR>>> stop and run at close to full output as the gasometer
level demands >> so as to <BR>>> give it " an easy life "
tarwise. <BR>>> <BR>>> The clean and cool gas could run
through ordinary PE pipes to the >> individual <BR>>> houses
where it should burn in gas furnaces. <BR>>> <BR>>> A
part of it could run the Listeroid genset which already works in >> chp
mode. <BR>>> <BR>>> I remember systems like this being
built in Switzerland until 30-40 >> years ago <BR>>> for
large kitchens and heating boilers in hotels and other remote >>
buildings <BR>>> in the mountains. The manufacturer was located in
Horgen on Lake Zurich. <BR>>> I would have to dive very deep into
my old records to find him... <BR>>> <BR>>> I attended
the Germany GEK workshop with Jim last year, but he seems >> to
busy <BR>>> to have time to spare for me. It is a
pity. <BR>>> <BR>>>
Questions: <BR>>> <BR>>> Do you have a gassifier of that
range 40 - 50 kW gas, not engine kW ? <BR>>> <BR>>> Do
you think that after scrubbing the gas could be "compressed " >>
slightly to <BR>>> 300-400 mb and stored in a gasometer
? <BR>>> <BR>>> Has anybody sent producer gas through PE
pipes over 150 m ? <BR>>> <BR>>> Where do you expect the
real difficulties ? <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
Looking foreward to your answer. <BR>>> <BR>>>
Rolf <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
Am Sonntag, 30. Januar 2011 18:06:37 schrieb Brian D
Paasch: <BR>>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 8:10 PM, doug.williams
wrote: <BR>>>>> To finger the problem of using industrial
scale producer gas, is that <BR>>>>> most large systems are
not tar free, and if you need to compress >>>> the
gas, <BR>>>>> technical challenges come thick and
fast. <BR>>>> Doug, <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
Oh goodness yes! We've not been willing to TOUCH the compression >>>
challenges <BR>>>> until we got our gas pretty darn clean. I'm
cautiously optimistic with <BR>>>> where we are at on that
task: <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNypVoZg3VA"
target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNypVoZg3VA</A> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
And right now we're planning on three separate compression steps
with <BR>>>> additional filters between each
step. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> And thanks for the pointer
to your archives, I will certainly
browse! <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
-brian <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
--------------------------------------- <BR>>>> Indiana
Renewables, LLC <BR>>>> 6600 Karyn Drive <BR>>>>
Avon, Indiana 46123 <BR>>>> ph:
317-272-7939 <BR>>>> fax:
317-536-5326 <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
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