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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi GF and all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Great idea </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>In the late seventies I came across a air
compressor made from a gasoline engine . The International 304ci factory
retrofit had all the components for the engine side from an International
Scout four cylinder. Ignition etc etc. The other four
cylinders of the engine were built to function as an air
compressor. This could also work as a gas compressor? One side would run on the
same gas it was compressing . I wonder if anybody has had any experience
with these types of air compressors.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>.( the scout 4 cylinder looks like the
right side of an eight cylinder 304 ... .) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Henri </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> ----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfwhell@aol.com href="mailto:gfwhell@aol.com">GF</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=mark@ludlow.com
href="mailto:mark@ludlow.com">mark@ludlow.com</A> ; <A
title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:05
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] DIY GtL</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=black size=2 face=arial>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_a3aa58e2-5aaf-4685-b014-3b053ae5e53d><FONT color=black
size=2 face=arial>
<DIV><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mark,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>I have attempted to describe a double barreled gas pump consisting of two
plastic drums. The principle of operation, is that "WATER" is used as the
"PISTONS"</DIV>
<DIV>If one drum is full of water and a pump is started in order to empty the
drum it will create a vacuum, unless a fluid is admitted to fill the
void.</DIV>
<DIV>In this case that fluid will be drawn from the out put of a
gasifier.which is sucked in, replacing the water which is being pumped
out.</DIV>
<DIV>The pump is transferring this water into drum "B", which
is, by its nature, a piston expelling what ever fluid is within. </DIV>
<DIV>Once air has been expelled from drum "B", it is safe to reverse the
process,</DIV>
<DIV>The return "stroke" will cause compression of the entrained gas in
drum"A" and will be drawing gas into drum "B"from the gasifier.</DIV>
<DIV>The desired pressure of the entrained gas can be adjusted by a pressure
switch stopping the pump(s)</DIV>
<DIV>My underground system with its reinforced concrete casing will
withstand a reasonable pressure/vacuum.</DIV>
<DIV>Bearing in mind that a 10 inch vacuum is likely to ""collapse" an
unsupported plastic drum.</DIV>
<DIV>With the use of check valves, level switches and low tech ancillaries it
is possible to construct a safe gas compressing system. </DIV>
<DIV>My reference to the water becoming flammable is an obvious mal
description, the water will take on some of the by products of the gas
being pumped which will include condensable volatiles such as methanol ,
ethanol creosote and tars, the disposal of which should be
pyrolisis. </DIV>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both"></DIV></FONT></DIV><FONT color=black size=2
face=arial></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT
color=black size=2 face=arial>GF
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Mark Ludlow <mark@ludlow.com><BR>To: 'Discussion
of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
<gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:28
pm<BR>Subject: Re: [Gasification] DIY GtL<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Usually the
flammability of a liquid is measured by something called "flash point", which
is determined by the minimum temperature any given liquid must be to sustain
combustion at its surface, when in a "closed cup". Water will never burn.
Volatiles in the liquid will burn, as in a dessert set aflame by a warmed
liqueur.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Mark</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Luke Gardner<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 31, 2011 6:17
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] DIY
GtL</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Gf,
</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">you mentioned
---</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This style of "GAS
PUMP" could form the "suction system" required for running the gas producer.
No doubt the water will become flammable over a period of
time. </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">the second barrel
as you described is vented to the atmosphere I assume </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I'm
curiose,</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">how long does it
take for the water to become flamable?</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">is it's flamability
more linked to time or more linked to cycles?</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">how flamable can it
become?</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">does this ever pose
a threat of igniting through the vent?</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Luke
Gardner</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=gfwhell@aol.com href="mailto:gfwhell@aol.com">GF</A>
</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Monday, January
31, 2011 8:57 AM</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re:
[Gasification] DIY GtL</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Compressing
flammable gas obviously can be hazardous, however those who are familiar
with making the stuff will know the importance of the exclusion of "air"
from any such installation.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Natural
gas distribution, arrives for domestic use here, at about 45 psi.from the
city main.and is regulated down to around 11" wg. for burner use. This stuff
is fairly nitrogen free being mostly methane and has a higher cal value than
the wood gas which is being debated. So 100 mm WG
sounds a trifle low <BR> for burner operation unless large pipes
and burner jets are contemplated.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">There
for compressing the gas is the answer.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This
can be safely achieved with the use of two (or more) 45 gallon plastic drums
planted under ground for convenience, fitted with the required plumbing and
a water pump system with pressure switch controls.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
idea is that one barrel is filled with water and is ready to "suck"
gas, the water pump transfers the water into the other barrel
drawing gas into the void being created as the water level drops..When
the water entering the second drum has expelled all of the
contained air in the second drum. This oscillating pumping system can
begin.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">With
the use of good quality check valves, sealed float switches and the use of
"two pumps" (the requirement for solenoid valves can be alleviated)
</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This
style of "GAS PUMP" could form the "suction system" required for running the
gas producer. No doubt the water will become flammable over a period of
time. </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">GF </SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Craig Kernan <<A
href="mailto:craig@postcollapse.org">craig@postcollapse.org</A>><BR>To:
Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <<A
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Mon, Jan 31, 2011 9:25 am<BR>Subject: Re: [Gasification] DIY
GtL</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_a15ab6af-76a0-4930-aca7-30d396335be1>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">I
would also like information <BR> <BR>Craig <BR> <BR>On
1/31/2011 1:44 AM, Li CHEN wrote: <BR>> Hi
Rolf, <BR>> <BR>> In China, there are hundreds of villages
using fuel gas > station...(gasifier --> producer gas --> pipe line
--> end user). <BR>> <BR>> I find some chinese documents
about using pipeline to provide producer >
gas. <BR>> <BR>> About pipeline part:, it
uses: <BR>> <BR>> From gas tank to end user, outside
underground pipeline: high-density > polyehytlene (designed life: 50
years). <BR>> <BR>> Inside or outside ground pipeline: steel
pipe. <BR>> <BR>> Pressure before end user gas burner: 100mm
H2O. <BR>> <BR>> I will send you offlist some figures about
the gas storage tank figure. <BR>> <BR>>
Li <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Le 30/01/2011 19:39, Rolf Uhle
a écrit : <BR>>> Hallo Brian, Doug and
list, <BR>>> <BR>>> this looks amazing ! The filtering
seems to be very good. <BR>>> <BR>>> You and Doug seem
to have experience with stocking producer
gas. <BR>>> <BR>>> May I ask you some questions
? <BR>>> <BR>>> We have 5 separate houses/cabins on
our land , all of them with solar >> and <BR>>> individual
wood and /or almond shell burning fireplaces . <BR>>> All of them
are hidronic underfloor systems with hot sanitary water >> tanks
. <BR>>> <BR>>> The distances between these houses
make a central water heat >> distribution <BR>>> system
rather inviable. <BR>>> <BR>>> We are off grid and run
electricitywise on solar, wind and micro hydro. <BR>>> There is a
backup generator slow speed diesel running on
WVO. <BR>>> <BR>>> My idea is to connect all houses to
a single gassifier of around 40 >> -50 kW gas <BR>>> output
and store a few hours gas in a gasometer and have the gassy >> start
and <BR>>> stop and run at close to full output as the gasometer
level demands >> so as to <BR>>> give it " an easy life "
tarwise. <BR>>> <BR>>> The clean and cool gas could
run through ordinary PE pipes to the >> individual <BR>>>
houses where it should burn in gas
furnaces. <BR>>> <BR>>> A part of it could run the
Listeroid genset which already works in >> chp
mode. <BR>>> <BR>>> I remember systems like this being
built in Switzerland until 30-40 >> years ago <BR>>> for
large kitchens and heating boilers in hotels and other remote >>
buildings <BR>>> in the mountains. The manufacturer was located
in Horgen on Lake Zurich. <BR>>> I would have to dive very deep
into my old records to find him... <BR>>> <BR>>> I
attended the Germany GEK workshop with Jim last year, but he seems >>
to busy <BR>>> to have time to spare for me. It is a
pity. <BR>>> <BR>>>
Questions: <BR>>> <BR>>> Do you have a gassifier of
that range 40 - 50 kW gas, not engine kW
? <BR>>> <BR>>> Do you think that after scrubbing the
gas could be "compressed " >> slightly to <BR>>> 300-400 mb
and stored in a gasometer ? <BR>>> <BR>>> Has anybody
sent producer gas through PE pipes over 150 m
? <BR>>> <BR>>> Where do you expect the real
difficulties ? <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Looking
foreward to your answer. <BR>>> <BR>>>
Rolf <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
Am Sonntag, 30. Januar 2011 18:06:37 schrieb Brian D
Paasch: <BR>>>> On Jan 29, 2011, at 8:10 PM, doug.williams
wrote: <BR>>>>> To finger the problem of using industrial
scale producer gas, is that <BR>>>>> most large systems are
not tar free, and if you need to compress >>>> the
gas, <BR>>>>> technical challenges come thick and
fast. <BR>>>>
Doug, <BR>>>> <BR>>>> Oh goodness yes! We've not
been willing to TOUCH the compression >>>
challenges <BR>>>> until we got our gas pretty darn clean. I'm
cautiously optimistic with <BR>>>> where we are at on that
task: <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNypVoZg3VA"
target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNypVoZg3VA</A> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
And right now we're planning on three separate compression steps
with <BR>>>> additional filters between each
step. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> And thanks for the pointer
to your archives, I will certainly
browse! <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
-brian <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
--------------------------------------- <BR>>>> Indiana
Renewables, LLC <BR>>>> 6600 Karyn Drive <BR>>>>
Avon, Indiana 46123 <BR>>>> ph:
317-272-7939 <BR>>>> fax:
317-536-5326 <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
_______________________________________________ <BR>>>
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>> <BR>>> <BR>>> for more Gasifiers, News and
Information see our web site: <BR>>> <A
href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/"
target=_blank>http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</A> <BR>> <BR>>
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