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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894493317-02062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Tom,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894493317-02062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>CO does moderate flame speed as you say, but it does not
correct the hydriogen problem for an Otto cycle engine. The single best
indicator for fuel suitability for a gas engine is the methane number, and a
producer gas has a very low methane number. The relatively high CO
content does not help. For even very modest BMEP operation, a methane
number of at least 60 is required. A producer gas from biomass will make
just about that and so that will eliminate all high BMEP engines from
consideration or alternatively, they can be substantially
derated.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894493317-02062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894493317-02062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Best Regards, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#04c6db face=Arial><STRONG>JAMES T. LEACH,
P.E.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#04c6db size=2
face=Arial><STRONG>President</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#04c6db size=2
face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf face=Arial><STRONG><EM>DANA TECHNOLOGIES,
INC.</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>32242 Paseo
Adelanto, Suite D</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>San Juan
Capistrano, CA 92675</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>Ph
949-496-6516</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>Fx
949-496-8133</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>Mobile
949-933-6518</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
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<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B>
gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>linvent@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 02, 2011 4:31
AM<BR><B>To:</B> gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[Gasification] back to gasification<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT color=black
face=arial></FONT><SPAN style="DISPLAY: inline-block"
contentEditable=false></SPAN>With the exception that CO found in producer gas
moderates the H2 combustion rate and moves the potential compression ratio way
up above CH4 tolerable compression levels. There is also the question of whether
taking the producer gas to methane has the economic benefit of doing so when you
are then competing with natural gas which in the US is selling for $4/mmBTU.
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sincerely,</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Leland T. "Tom"
Taylor</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">President</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thermogenics Inc.
</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Jim Leach
<jleach@danatech.net><BR>To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification' <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><BR>Sent: Wed, Jun 1,
2011 5:35 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [Gasification] back to gasification<BR><BR>
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894492923-01062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Thanks again Florian,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894492923-01062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894492923-01062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>I do have a couple of comments. You still have to cool
the product gas down for the gas turbine, not because of the turbine, but
because of the gas control valves. They have temperature limits that
cannot be exceeded, typically about 60C. Also, there is an energy benefit
to methanation for application to engines. The benefit is that converting
the H2 to CH4 will allow engines with higher BMEPs to be applied, and that means
higher efficiency, and greater output for the same engine frame
size.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894492923-01062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=894492923-01062011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Best Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#04c6db face=Arial><STRONG>JAMES T. LEACH,
P.E.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#04c6db size=2
face=Arial><STRONG>President</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#04c6db size=2
face=Arial></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf face=Arial><STRONG><EM>DANA TECHNOLOGIES,
INC.</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>32242 Paseo
Adelanto, Suite D</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>San Juan
Capistrano, CA 92675</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>Ph
949-496-6516</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>Fx
949-496-8133</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT color=#23c2cf size=2 face=Arial><STRONG><EM>Mobile
949-933-6518</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Florian Nagel<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 01, 2011 4:07
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] back to
gasification<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi
James</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regarding
gas engines, you are right that cooling is a must from a thermodynamical
perspective. Regarding gas turbines, a hot gas cleaning process would be very
nice to have (excuse me mentioning gas turbines in the last sentence of the last
comment…clearly doesn’t belong there…) because the turbines have the potential
to stand high combustion temperatures. The according exhaust gas would be in
turn very hot, which makes the use of this heat possible in a bottoming cycle.
So, looking at a gasturbine combined cycle, high fuel gas temperature does make
sense if you adjust the combustion temperature in a way that the gas turbine
stands it and if you use the exhaust heat. However, this requires a hot gas
cleaning process. At PSI, we operated high-temperature fuel cell with
producer gas that was cleaned in a hot gas cleaning system where the gas
temperature never dropped below 500C. Thus, there are ways to remove tars, etc.
at high temperature (Catalytic partial oxidation or high-temperature reforming
steps). Anyways, I wouldn’t go so far and say that this technology is readily
available ;o)</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">In
any case, methanation is a great way to convert woody biomass into a more usable
and storable form but I don’t quite see it in combination with gas engines. Just
to expensive and without real efficiency benefit if you aim at electricity as
end product.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cheers</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Florian</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jim Leach<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 01, 2011
17:18<BR><B>To:</B> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] back to
gasification</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks
Florian,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If one
wants to burn the product gas in an engine or a gas turbine you have to cool and
clean the gas anyway. So dropping the temperature would be a part of the
tar removal process and would occur anyway. Adding water is not good
because the product gas must be well below the dew point for the combustion
device. So it you put it in for methanation, you will have to take it
out later. But what I was interested in was simply converting the H2 to CH4,
because engines (including GT's) don't really like H2 (it burns too fast).
Reciprocating engines in particular, would much prefer a steady diet of
CH4. But I think I understand from your answer is that it is not worth
it. Unfortunately, an answer I was expecting.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #04c6db">JAMES T. LEACH,
P.E.</SPAN></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #04c6db; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">President</SPAN></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #23c2cf">DANA TECHNOLOGIES,
INC.</SPAN></B></EM></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #23c2cf; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">32242
Paseo Adelanto, Suite D</SPAN></B></EM></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #23c2cf; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">San
Juan Capistrano, CA 92675</SPAN></B></EM></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #23c2cf; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ph
949-496-6516</SPAN></B></EM></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #23c2cf; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fx
949-496-8133</SPAN></B></EM></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><EM><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #23c2cf; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mobile
949-933-6518</SPAN></B></EM></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=3 width="100%">
</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Florian Nagel<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 01, 2011 2:52
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] back to
gasification</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi
James</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
cant comment on the cost of the methanation step but I can comment on your idea
regarding a methanation step as fuel upgrade in a gasification- and gas
engine-based power plant. I did my thesis together with Jan at PSI working on
the combination of high-temperature fuel cells with woody biomass gasifiers: <A
href="http://e-collection.library.ethz.ch/view/eth:41553"
target=_blank>http://e-collection.library.ethz.ch/view/eth:41553</A> . Hi Jan, I
m still on that list as you see :D</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Methanation
is an exothermic process that yields the highest methane concentration in the
product gas when kept around 400C process temperature. Hence, you ll first have
to cool your syngas down to 400C. Depending on your gasifier type and syngas
composition, you might get into carbon deposition problems (Boudouard reaction
for example where 2 CO molecules decompose into carbon and carbon dioxide). You
can overcome these problems by injecting steam into your syngas (which will cool
it down at the same time..) which you will also need to increase your hydrogen
atom content in a way that allows methanation. Then you can take it from there
and produce methane.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Problem
I see is that by introducing water into your fuel gas, you already lower its
heating value. This results in a lower combustion temperature in your gas
engine. Gas engines are limited by the Carnot efficiency rule that clearly
states that the efficiency of a combustion engine increases with the difference
between the temperature of the hot compressed combusted gas and the temperature
of the expanded exhaust gas. Hence, the efficiency of a combustion engine
running on humidized syngas should definitely be lower than running on
unhumidified syngas. Next problem is, during the methanation you have to cool
the reactor. Thus you are again reducing the energy content of your syngas or by
that time synthetic methane (relative to the energy content of the initial
feedstock). The energy you extract from the methanation process is in form of
low-temperature heat (400C) which you can hardly use economically to produce
electricity with a steam cycle. Once you have your synthetic methane gas
mixture, you ll have to reduce the high water content of it to not run into
above mentioned efficiency issues of the combustion engine. This can only be
done by cooling the gas close to ambient temperature were the water simply
condenses. Another point in the process were you extract energy at very very low
temperature level. I would consider this energy as a complete loss. From there
you can use the dried, cold synthetic methane in your engine and produce
electricity.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">To
put it in numbers: Good gasification-gas engine plants reach efficiencies around
25 to 30% without bottoming-cycle (steam cycle to use exhaust heat). The
methanation process has an efficiency around 65%. Together with a very high
combustion engine efficiency of 42.5%, you end up with a maximum efficiency of a
gasification-methanation-gas engine scheme of around 27.5%. However, with
considerably higher equipment cost. I definitely recommend not to use a
methanation step as fuel upgrading step but to use the syngas directly in your
engine. In any case, the world totally changes if you aim at using
high-temperature fuel cells, gas turbines or if you want to make the wood energy
transportable and storable. The latter was the idea of the PSI methanation
project given Switzerlands dependence on foreign gas imports.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Cheers</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Florian
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
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<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jim Leach<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 01, 2011
15:51<BR><B>To:</B> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] back to
gasification</SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">Jan,</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">I am curious what method you
selected for tar removal. Also, was the methanation step expensive?
The methane would make a better engine fuel than the H2 and CO but I am
concerned about the cost.</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">Best Regards,</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=MsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #04c6db; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">JAMES
T. LEACH, P.E.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jan Kopyscinski<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, June 01, 2011
1:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Gasification] back to
gasification</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Hi Kevin,<BR><BR>I
did my Phd thesis on this topic. You can find more information there:<BR><A
href="http://e-collection.library.ethz.ch/view/eth:1059"
target=_blank>http://e-collection.library.ethz.ch/view/eth:1059</A><BR><BR>or
under <A href="http://www.bio-sng.com/" target=_blank>www.bio-sng.com</A> and <A
href="http://www.biosng.com/" target=_blank>www.biosng.com</A>, <A
href="http://www.biofuelstp.eu/bio-sng.html"
target=_blank>http://www.biofuelstp.eu/bio-sng.html</A> and on other
pages.<BR><BR>In a nut shell the process consits of:<BR>1) low temperature
steam gasification<BR>2) gas cleaning (ash, tar, H2S, ...)<BR>3) methanation =
conversion of the syngas into methan (catalytic process, mostly
Nickelcatalyst)<BR> CO + 3 H2 --> CH4 + H2O<BR> CO + H2O --> H2
+ CO2<BR><BR>If you use a different catalyst you can go for higher hydrocarbon
such as Fischer Tropsch Diesel, or Methanol, ....<BR><BR>4) Fuel upgrading =
removal of H2O, CO2<BR><BR>We at the Paul Scherrer Institute in Switzerland (<A
href="http://tpe.web.psi.ch/" target=_blank>http://tpe.web.psi.ch/</A>)
investigated this process from wood to BioSNG in two scales for more than
1000h.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Jan</SPAN></DIV><PRE>- </PRE><PRE>Dr. sc. Jan Kopyscinski</PRE><PRE>Postdoctoral fellow</PRE><PRE>Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering</PRE><PRE>Schulich School of Engineering</PRE><PRE>University of Calgary</PRE><PRE>2500 University Drive NW</PRE><PRE>Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4</PRE><PRE> </PRE><PRE>Email: <A href="mailto:jan.kopyscinski@ucalgary.ca">jan.kopyscinski@ucalgary.ca</A></PRE><PRE>Phone: 001 403 2109575 </PRE>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=3 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Von:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> Kevin <<A
href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</A>><BR><B>Gesendet:</B>
May 31, 2011 5:02:24 PM<BR><B>An:</B> "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification" <<A
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR><B>Betreff:</B>
Re: [Gasification] back to gasification</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear Jan</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Very
interesting!!</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">What steam
temperature and pressure is required to gasify wood?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Once one has such
gas, what sort processing is required to convert it to CH4? (That is, what
temperatures, pressures, catalysts, etc)</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Is there any way this
can be done on a small scale?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Is there any way this
process can be modified to produce methanol on a small scale? If so, this would
be awesome... it would then yield a very portable liquid fuel.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thanks!</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kevin</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message -----</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=jan.kopy@web.de href="mailto:jan.kopy@web.de">Jan
Kopyscinski</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification</A></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Tuesday, May 31,
2011 11:30 AM</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [Gasification]
back to gasification</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><BR>Hi,<BR><BR>First
of all, there are at least two different types of biofuel:<BR>First
Generation: agricultural feedstock, which is converted by means of
biochemical processes (i.e., digestion) --> Biogas<BR>Second Generation:
woody biomass that is converted via thermochemical converiosn into a producer
or so-calles syngas (Gasification).<BR>Thus, if your goal is to produce Methan
or Natural Gas substite for a gas engine or transportation fuel you have
different options. But you need to know what is your feedstock (dry , wet,
digestable or not digestable such as wood):<BR>If you have a rather dry
feedstock you can go for steam gasifiaction (no air, means no Nitrogen). The
produced syngas you can catalytilcally convert to CH4, CO2 and H2O. Prior to
the methanation process you need to remove the sulphur since it is
deactivating your catalyts. H2O and CO2 can then be removed. This process has
been investiaget by the Paul Scherrer Institiute in Switzerland (<A
href="http://www.psi.ch/" target=_blank>www.psi.ch</A> and <A
href="http://www.bio-sng.com/" target=_blank>www.bio-sng.com</A>).<BR>Removal
of nitrogen is too expensive, thus you should avoid feeding it into your
process. 2 vol% to max 5vol% N2 in the methan rich gas is
acceptable.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Jan</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal
align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">
<HR align=center SIZE=3 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Von:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> "Pannirselvam
P.V" <<A
href="mailto:pannirbr@gmail.com">pannirbr@gmail.com</A>><BR><B>Gesendet:</B>
May 31, 2011 12:46:54 PM<BR><B>An:</B> "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification" <<A
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>><BR><B>Betreff:</B>
Re: [Gasification] back to gasification<BR><BR>Dear A.D Karve
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">
One of the project we have been studying is based on the
IGT,Instuite Gas technology patented process called Biotherm
, in which the wood gas or syngqs can be passed into the
biodigestor, in which CO and Hydrogen can be converted into
methane ; the NOX .COX, SOX removed via simple known wet or
dry process using activated charcoal and lime ; the methane is
then compressed.The N can be removed as ammonia,as this can be
very toxic to bio methane bacteria; Syngas obtained via pyrogas can reduce
this N2 problem and complexity.Thus pyrogas technology has more
potential than wood gas technology</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> we are
studying how to make this complex process into simple innovative process to
make possible charcoal and methane economy which is practiced
in the developed country in big scale can be made
possible in developing village level technology too in small scale ,The
project is yet in design stage to reduce CO2 to use as liquid
fertilizer too increasing the
calorific valued the compressed biogas.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Yours
truely</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Pannirselvam</SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">On Mon, May 30,
2011 at 11:01 PM, Anand Karve <<A
href="mailto:adkarve@gmail.com">adkarve@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Dear List,<BR>We
are already using, in India, wood gas made from agricultural waste<BR>to run
stationary internal combustion engines. But, for using it as<BR>automobile
fuel, it would have to be filled into cylinders, for which<BR>the nitrogen in
the wood gas would have to be removed in order to<BR>reduce its bulk and to
increase its calorfiic value. Does anybody have<BR>a suggestion as to how this
can be
achieved?<BR>Yours<BR>A.D.Karve<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Gasification
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clear=all><BR>--<BR>************************************************<BR>P.V.PANNIRSELVAM<BR>ASSOCIATE
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East,Brazil<BR>*******************************************<BR><A
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__________<BR><BR>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<BR><BR><A
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__________<BR><BR>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<BR><BR><A
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target=_blank>http://www.eset.com</A><BR><BR><BR>__________ Information from
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id=AOLMsgPart_3_2f3d09e1-abc3-4ee9-9747-5dd223142e0a><PRE style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><TT>_______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address <A href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</A> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page <A href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</A> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: <A href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target=_blank>http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</A> </TT></PRE></DIV>
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<P>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.</P><BR>
<P>http://www.eset.com</P>
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