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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Geoff:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>High pressure is an accepted way to pasteurize juices and eliminate vibrio in and extend the shelf life of oysters. Water is virtually incompressible. Bacteria stay in equilibrium with their environment but react to sudden changes in pressure.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>GF<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_1_d844ced2-2494-4347-98a2-7cb6ff2f1d01"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I seem to remeber the filter beds laid down with "coke"derived from the GAS WORKS to enhance the bacterial action on sewage.It is interesting to postulate the possibilities of testing other ziolite qualities in other materials than char. The reaction of bacteria over a nutriant soaked porous media especially when it is soaked with recirculated liquids from behind the scum board which retains the larger solids. This raises a question I have long pondered. Is microbial action accelerated by pressure. If this reaction is contained within a pressure vessel? For instance :<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>what sort of result could we expect if this bacterial action took place at say 9000lb per sq inch, give or take a few atmospheres. I have heard that beer bottles explode if unchecked during fermentation, is the generation of gasses increased with pressure forcing the nutrient down the throat of the microbes as it were?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>GF<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:4.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:4.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: back40 <back40@gmail.com><br>To: paul.harris <paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au>; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 4:01 pm<br>Subject: Re: [Gasification] [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="AOLMsgPart_0_e794fc62-68e6-4a25-8c28-008af08ba762"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>I wonder if this is relevant:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://newscenter.lbl.gov/feature-stories/2011/10/05/soil-carbon/" target="_blank">http://newscenter.lbl.gov/feature-stories/2011/10/05/soil-carbon/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>"Michael Schmidt, a co-author of the Nature paper from the University<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>of Zurich, has already found that biochar, which is charred material<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>from wildfires or a kiln, is not stable as previously believed. It<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>also readily decomposes. Some scientists had believed that biochar<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>could be used to sequester carbon, but this may not be the case."<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>On 10/6/11, Paul Harris <<a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au">paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> G’day All,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> For the “non digesters” in particular some anaerobic digesters are packed<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> with plastic rings/balls or other media to provide a surface for bacteria,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> so what Dr Karve has possibly done (I am guessing here) is provided “homes”<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> for a lot more bacteria so they are not washed out. This is good for<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> solutions but not so good if there are solids in the waste stream.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> The other possibility is that the extra carbon has restored the C:N ratio.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Could you give more details of what you did Dr Karve, if it is possible (I<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> understand you may have some commercial interests to protect)?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Happy digesting,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> HOOROO<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> University of Adelaide,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61 8 8303 7880 Fax :<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> +61 8 8303 4386<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Roseworthy Campus, Ph : +61 8 8303 7929<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> <a href="mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au?">mailto:paul.harris@adelaide.edu.au</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> <a href="http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris" target="_blank">http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> recipient.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> From: <a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> [<a href="mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:digestion-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2011 1:35 PM<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> To: Anand Karve; <a href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>; Discussion of<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> biomass; biochar; digestion<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Subject: [Digestion] Karve connecting Biochar and Biogas<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> AD (cc four lists):<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> I have not previously seen the connection between Biochar and Biogas<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> that you described (below) today on the gasification list. In<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> particular, you say you ".. filled the digester<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> with charcoal, my system accepted three times the normal daily input<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> and produced three times as much gas."<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> I think what you describe can be a very powerful push for both Biochar and<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Biogas. Can you describe what you have learned a little more?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> I know too little of digesters, so this is not clear. I think I know<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> your kitchen-sized inverted "barrel" gas chamber and think I understand the<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> last part - of getting three times as much gas in the next 24 hours or less<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> (and 3X is a huge change!). Does the idea of accepting three times more<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> mean essentially the same thing? I would think you could "jam" any amount<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> in; what limits acceptance?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Do you agree that this is very important new information? Do you agree<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> this information could help speed up both technologies? I believe there is<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> wide agreement that Biochar benefits from added biological material (that<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> would not be long-lived from a sequestration perspective). Is there any<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> reason to think that the traditional use of digester effluent for ag<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> improvements will be in any way harmed if it is continued through the<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> addition of carbon-negative Biochar? Should this not promote sales of your<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> charcoal-making stoves?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> If I haven't asked quite the right question - please answer the right<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> one. And congratulations on learning and reporting this.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Ron<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Gary Jones<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>