<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
I don't think it is likely to be important here but please note that
the flow model that results in only pressure differential being
important assumes a number of things. These include:<br>
<br>
1. Quiet static conditions are a good approximation on both sides
of a restriction. <br>
(for some designs this might be far from a good assumptions)<br>
2. The properties of the gas mixture approximate those of an ideal
gas. <br>
<br>
I spent most of my career as a systems engineer. During that time I
found that 9 out of 10 bad designs were a result of using bad
assumptions or the wrong model for the physics of the environment.
i.e. Someone used the correct solution for the wrong problem to do
some of the design.<br>
<br>
Craig.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/19/2012 8:07 AM, Phil Marsh wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:003601cd05ea$6cd3abf0$467b03d0$@com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi
All:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have to weigh in with my two bits on this one. You are all
correct but Kevin pounded the nail here as far as I am
concerned. The flows are created by the differential
pressures between the two points you are measuring, I use a
differential pressure meter for exactly this purpose. If you
are only measuring “from atmosphere” you will obviously find
the high pressure closest to the fan (to and cold side of
the bed depending on design) with the pressure decreasing
the farther through the system you check. On a suction
system the greatest pressure (or vacuum in this case) will
be found on the hot side of the bed. The reason that Stephen
found his hopper full of tar when running under pressure is
that gas laws require the gases evolving to distribute
themselves evenly or move to lower pressure. The hopper will
fill with gas until the pressure builds up enough that all
the gases flow to the hot side, the slightest leak at the
hopper will make this worse. Under vacuum the opposite will
happen with the gasses all flowing to the lower pressure on
the hot side but any air leak if too large will cause a
different problem</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It
is easy to see this with many probe ports and a differential
pressure meter. I assure you the gases do not care they just
move from high pressure to low based on the system you have
created, keep your retorts “airtight” and for most designs
we talk about here suction will work best because you have
created the highest “pressure” (read vacuum) in the right
place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Phil
Marsh<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Marshbros.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">250
569-7858<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Kevin<br>
<b>Sent:</b> March-19-12 7:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] On the subject of H2
and O (was N2 removal)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Dear
Stephen, Luke, and Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
think, like Luke, that pressure or suction should not
matter. However, you and Greg, who have first hand
operating experience find that it does. Reality trumps
theory every time!! :-)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I
further think that there is not necessarily a conflict
here. If we go deeper into the problem, it is not so much
the pressure or vacuum that causes the gases to flow
through the bed, but rather the differential pressure.
Basically, I would suggest that if a difference between
operation under pressure and operation under suction is
observed, there is a different "differential pressure
situation" existing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Consider
a test installation as follows: A 6" diameter pipe, with a
1/8" screen in the middle, on which a bed of 1" glass
marbles, 1' deep, is placed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Consider
3 test cases as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">1:
System closed at the top, open on the bottom. Air is
supplied above the bed at +10" WG pressure</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">2:
System open on the top, and closed at the bottom. Air is
"sucked out" through the bed, from the bottom, with a
vacuum of -10" WG suction.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">3:
System closed at the top, and air is supplied at +5"
pressure, and system is closed at the bottom, and air is
withdrawn at a vacuum of -5" WG suction.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">In
all three cases, the "differential pressure", or "pressure
drop" across the marble bed is 10" WG.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Can
anyone provide a rational explanation of why air flow in
all three cases would not be identical for all practical
purposes?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Stephen's
observation of "top tar when under pressure, but none when
under vacuum" could be easily explained by a hopper seal
that was less than perfect.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Best
wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Kevin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sabbadess@aol.com"
title="sabbadess@aol.com">sabbadess@aol.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"
title="gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Monday, March 19, 2012 7:41 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
Re: [Gasification] On the subject of H2 and O (was N2
removal)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Luke,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">I
am going to challenge the statement that pressure vs.
suction is the same thing. I thought the same thing
three years ago, but after running my machine in both
modes I've come to the conclusion that it's just not
true. I now think of the flows going into the nozzles
like a rope. If you push a rope into the machine until
it come out the exit flange it's going to go in, bunch
up, pack up, and go in many different directions before
finally exiting. From a flow standpoint it will be a
mess.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">If
you run the machine under suction, it's like pulling the
rope through the machine from the exit flange.
Everything is straight, smooth, and directed toward the
exit. The result is that the pyrolysis zone is thinner
and there are fewer up drafts carrying heat up into the
fuel hopper. The thinner pyrolysis zone means that
there is less tar for the available oxygen to
incinerate(or "crack" if you like that theory) so
everything runs cleaner.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">When
I used to run my machine under pressure I would see a
"sea" of flammable thick tar gas in the hopper when I
would refuel it. Now under suction I don't see any
smoke in the hopper.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Just
my experiences.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Stephen
Abbadessa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Luke Gardner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lgardner@wwest.net"><lgardner@wwest.net></a><br>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org"><gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
Sent: Sun, Mar 18, 2012 10:22 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] On the subject of H2 and O
(was N2 removal)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_75a342c3-b256-4bca-bd1b-8d57577d52d9">
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">I don't have a lot of time today, but I have been loosely following along, <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">and I Can't help but wonder if things might not be a little easier to <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">understand if a Guy stops thinking in temperature and pressure, and started <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">thinking about the material of discussion in terms of its kinetic energy.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">14.7, or 101.325 aren't magical universal pivot points that natural laws <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">swing upon, "normal" Air pressure, isn't hardly ever " normal" at all. It <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">is as much a figment of our human imagination as monday, or leap day, or <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">the millenium. The only difference between a "suction" and "pressure" <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">gasifier is a few PSI and your point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">resectfully,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Luke<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">-----Original Message----- <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">From: Greg Manning<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 12:30 PM<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Subject: Re: [Gasification] On the subject of H2 and O (was N2 removal)<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">meant NOT at a great amount (as in very small) sorry all.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">G.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Greg Manning <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com">a31ford@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> KELBURN,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> THANK YOU !<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> This is the EXACT thing I needed to see.... proves my point, EXACTLY.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> I am now of the firm beleif that we CAN (And DO) water gas shift in<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> suction type gasifiers, where as, blown (pressureized) gasifiers can<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> NOT do W/G shift.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> I think the W/G shift is at a great amount, BUT, it sure proves my<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> caclulations, almost dead on.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> Greg<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Kelburn Koontz <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kelburn_k@yahoo.com">kelburn_k@yahoo.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> Making Ice with Vacuum<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOYgdQp4euc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOYgdQp4euc</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> Check out the ideal gas law.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> Kel<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> On Sun, 2012-03-18 at 08:10 -0700, Mark Ludlow wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> “The steam produced in cavitation is like putting water in a bell jar<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> and pulling a vacuum. If there is enough vacuum the water will boil,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> converting it's temperature into energy for the phase change.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Eventually you end up with a chunk of ice in the bell jar.”<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Not so! Not enough latent heat is lost. Sensible heat must be removed<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> also. In outer space, where there are huge radiative heat losses this<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> applies. If folks could make ice with simple vacuum pumps, who would<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> mess with refrigeration? It takes energy to evaporate water, not just<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> vacuum.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Plus, when a gas is adsorbed onto a sieve, energy is released. It<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> takes the same energy (and then some) to regenerate the sieves. No<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> free lunch; no where.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sabbadess@aol.com">sabbadess@aol.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 7:55 AM<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] On the subject of H2 and O (was N2<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> removal)<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Sure. Let's to a simple example so my feeble mind can follow it.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> When I drop cold chips in my gasifier there is some moisture content<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> in the chips...this is liquid water in the wood cells. As the chips<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> burn down into the hearth they get hot and the water changes to steam.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> This phase change absorbs some amount of energy. Then as the steam<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> goes through the char, some of it does the water gas shift if there is<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> enough heat. This absorbs even more energy. The remaining steam ends<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> up as condensate in the cooler.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> The steam produced in cavitation is like putting water in a bell jar<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> and pulling a vacuum. If there is enough vacuum the water will boil,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> converting it's temperature into energy for the phase change.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Eventually you end up with a chunk of ice in the bell jar.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> The water gas shift will not happen in the phase change because there<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> isn't sufficient activation energy availble to make the reaction go.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> If it did work that way, there would be hydrogen bubbles coming off<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> boat propellers. That would make a COOL rooster tail!<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Gasifiers do not run a low enough pressure to vaporize the water, like<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> the bell jar. I can get the numbers if you want, but you need to be<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> in -13psi range. That's way more than we pull.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Any clearer or still muddy??<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Stephen<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> From: Greg Manning <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com">a31ford@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Sent: Sun, Mar 18, 2012 10:09 am<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] On the subject of H2 and O (was N2<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> removal)<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Hi Stephen, thanks for the reply.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> OK, I somewhat understand you, BUT, wouldn't water be doing a phase<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> change in the core of a gasifier as well ?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> What I was getting at, is if steam is produced in cavitation in cold<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> water, then wouldn't the shift effect also happen within the core<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> during phase transition (from water as a liquid, to water as a vapor,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> when heated by the core) within the same boundaries of effect as water<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> to steam in the trailing edge of a propeller ? (all of these<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> situations involve lower that normal pressure zones).<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Aren't contrails produced in water vapor on the wing tips of an<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> airplane because of this same pressure drop phase shift, causing a<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> dew-point change?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> The core of most gasifiers runs in a dynamic lower than atmospheric<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> pressure ( a very low internal barometric pressure) (suction based<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> units), so the same shifts should apply during phase transition,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> shouldn't they ?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> I understand that a pressure fed gasifier would behave differently<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> (and I've personally observed this) than a suction based one, I'm<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> speaking about suction based gasifiers.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Somewhat lost,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Greg<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:26 AM, <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sabbadess@aol.com">sabbadess@aol.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > The energy doesn't change. The bond energy in the water is constant<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > regardless of pressure.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > The cavitation issue is different. It is a phase change phenomenon, <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > not a<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > chemical change one.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Stephen<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > From: Greg Manning <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:a31ford@gmail.com">a31ford@gmail.com</a>><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Sent: Sun, Mar 18, 2012 9:02 am<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Subject: [Gasification] On the subject of H2 and O (was N2 removal)<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Greetings List.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Since we are speaking input air, I thought I might ask a somewhat<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > related question.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Water gas shift. I know there are many that have talked about this,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > and I understand the basics.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > However, here is the question.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > At what negative pressure ( negative in/wc) does the shift move down<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > the temperature scale, to the point of being within the 1000 - 1200 c<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > area ?<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > We all know that propeller cavitation produces steam in water that is<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > 10 c (or there abouts), I have to assume (not being a chemist) that<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > the same negative pressure effect would also apply to other principals<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > when dealing with water.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > --<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Greg Manning,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Brandon, Manitoba, Canada<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> ><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> --<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Greg Manning,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> --<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> Greg Manning,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">-- <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Greg Manning,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Brandon, Manitoba, Canada<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black">for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><tt><span style="color:black"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Gasification mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div>
<p>No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4880 - Release
Date: 03/19/12<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>