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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">In answer to Mark Ludlow's question, <font
color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Where
does the rest
of the “trash” go? </span></font><br>
That would probably be "up the stack" ~ i.e. == air emissions ??<br>
<br>
In answer to John Miedema's question about "<font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">chlorides involved
in the trash</span></font>" and a possible <font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">dioxin problem? <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"></span></span></font><br>
Again, you might, depending on the TEMPS involved in the process.<br>
<br>
<br>
You might expect that one good way to avoid Dioxins is to avoid
burning chlorinated plastics, i.e. PVC (Polyvinyl chloride),
Chlorinated polyethylene (CPE), Chlorinated polyvinyl chloride
(CPVC) etc.<br>
<br>
Yes, most dioxins arise in the condensed solid phase by the
reaction of inorganic chlorides with graphitic structures in
char-containing ash particles, with copper acting as a catalyst
for these reactions, therefore the highest dioxin concentration is
typically created by the <i><b>pyrolysis</b></i> of PVC.<br>
<br>
Large <b>incinerators</b> have mostly worked this out, however.
The Japanese [and German] tech is rather good at dealing with
these things.<br>
<br>
I don't know what kind of "air emissions" controls have been put
on this particular system, if any.<br>
<br>
The single most important factor in forming dioxin-like compounds
is the temperature of the combustion gases. Oxygen concentration
also plays a major role on dioxin formation, but <b>not</b> the
chlorine content. Several studies have shown that removing PVC
from waste would <u>not</u> significantly reduce the quantity of
dioxins emitted.**<br>
<br>
The design of modern incinerators minimize dioxins by optimizing
the <b>stability of the thermal process</b>. The EU emission
limit is 0.1 ng I-TEQ/m3. Modern incinerators not only operate in
conditions that minimize dioxin formation, but are also equipped
with <b>pollution control devices</b> which catch the low amounts
produced.<br>
<br>
** The European Union Commission published in July 2000 a Green
Paper on the Environmental Issues of PVC noted that, "there does
not seem to be a direct quantitative relationship between chlorine
content and dioxin formation".<br>
Similarly, another study commissioned by the European Commission
on "<i>Life Cycle Assessment of PVC and of principal competing
materials</i>" states that "Recent studies show that the
presence of PVC has <u>no significant effect</u> on the amount of
dioxins released through incineration of plastic waste."<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.biochar-consulting.ca">www.biochar-consulting.ca</a>
48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
905-707-8754
CELL: 647-886-8754
Skype: lloyd.helferty
Steering Committee coordinator
Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summit <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.urbanagsummit.org">www.urbanagsummit.org</a>
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475</a>
Advisory Committee Member, IBI
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario">http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/">http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.biocharontario.ca">http://www.biocharontario.ca</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.biochar.ca">www.biochar.ca</a>
"It is the path, more than the arrival at the destination, that is important"
- Gandhi</pre>
On 2012-11-10 12:36 PM, John Miedema wrote:<br>
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I am curious
about the chlorides involved
in the trash (plastics)? Would not there be a dioxin
problem? <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Times
New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><b><font color="#1f497d"
face="Calibri" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">John
Miedema</span></font></b></strong><strong><b><u><font
color="navy" face="Calibri"><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes"><o:p></o:p></span></font></u></b></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d"
face="Calibri" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-no-proof:yes">BioLogical
Carbon,
LLC</span></font><font color="navy"><span
style="color:navy;mso-no-proof:
yes"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes"> </span></font><font
color="#1f497d"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><font face="MS PGothic" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"MS
PGothic";
mso-bidi-font-family:"MS PGothic"">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2"
width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
Gasification
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Mark
Ludlow<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Saturday, November 10, 2012
2:24 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
'Discussion of biomass
pyrolysis and gasification'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Gasification] <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Sweden</st1:place></st1:country-region>'s
trash
project / Japanese trash project</span></font><font
face="MS PGothic"><span style="font-family:"MS
PGothic";mso-bidi-font-family:"MS
PGothic""><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Where
does the rest
of the “trash” go? Just, “Somewhere”? RE:
Conservation of <st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Mass.</st1:place></st1:state><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"
size="2"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
Gasification
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Terry
& Susan Layman<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, November 09, 2012
4:08 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Gasification] <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Sweden</st1:place></st1:country-region>'s
trash
project / Japanese trash project<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">The Swedish are probably
using the same system the Japanese
invented.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Leave it to the Japanese to
perfect a system, that virtually
elimanates<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">trash. Each day Iwamoto's <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://superstoneclean.com/waste-treatment-solutions/">"Super
Stone
Clean Waste Treatment'' </a>processors<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">can take a 20 ton pile of
common garbage, and reduce it to
less than 8 gallons<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">of what they call biochar. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Just watch their video. then
you can see first hand the
machine and the process.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">I, wouldn't classify it as
BioChar, but it looks to me like
ashes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">Reduces waste volume from
1/100th to 1/3000th of original
input: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">1,000kg waste →300g ashes <strong><b><font
color="red" face="Arial"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:red">(
2,200 lbs waste to 10.58
oz's ashes )</span></font></b></strong>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial">This is probably the most
advanced system for Gasification.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</pre>
</o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></blockquote>
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