<html><head><base href="x-msg://842/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div><div>Hi Folks,</div><div><br></div><div>I've never posted to this list serve, but followed along for years. When I saw the discussion of Sweden's trash project, I had to weigh in.</div><div><br></div><div>In 2006, I traveled to Sweden as part of a Municipal Leaders Tour of Sustainable Sweden. As part of that tour we toured the Dava heat and electrical plant near the city of Umea. The Dava co-gen plant supplies the city of Umea with 85% of it's heat needs and a good portion of its electrical needs (I forget the exact amount). We we treated to a presentation about the DAVA plant and then got to tour the place. As a long time tinkerer, I was green with envy of all the intricate contraptions used to incinerate garbage and produce heat and power. see: <a href="http://www.umeaenergi.se/om-umeaa-energi/foeretaget/summary-in-english.ept">http://www.umeaenergi.se/om-umeaa-energi/foeretaget/summary-in-english.ept</a> I have lots of pictures of the plant, the .ppt the presenters used and also filmed of the tour and presentation.</div><div><br></div><div>The presenters made a good case as to how the Dava plant actually cleaned up the air quality around Umea, a city that has frequent air inversions that can trap air pollutants near ground level. Before the installation of the Dava plant, air quality was often horrendous because of all the individual heat plants in homes and businesses, many of which were inefficient and polluting. The Dava plant improved air quality immensely, while creating heat and power and reducing waste. While it may not be perfectly clean, they made a good case about how clean it burned. It looked like a good deal to me. The did have a control room with banks of computers screens all monitoring various scrubbers and processes.</div><div><br></div><div>We also got to tour the Helsingborg landfill, which diverted 76% of its waste stream into recyclable materials (21 categories of separation, a portion of that going into an anaerobic digester, which powered the extensive city bus fleet and the excess methane was sold on the open market to owners of bi-fuel cars ). 20% of the waste stream went into the incinerator, and the remaining 4% went into the landfill. Amazing!</div><div><br></div><div>It was an eye opening experience for me. Thanks for letting me share it.</div></div><div><br></div></span>Greg</div><div><br></div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>Greg David</div><div>W4512 Riverdale Lane</div><div>Watertown, WI 53094</div><div>(920)262-9996 home</div><div>(920) 988-5629</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Nov 10, 2012, at 10:37 PM, Tom Miles wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The Japanese unit looks like it might be a small rotary pyrolyzer that is heated by burning the offgas. In that case we would expect to see a char product and a clean stack.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Ebara is the main waste to energy company that uses gasification in Japan. Burn the gas directly into a close coupled boiler.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Japan funded extensive waste gasification in the 1990s. They tried several different types of gasifiers. Ebara is one of the few companies that still used gasification for waste. There are several companies that make rotary pyrolyzers. Last year in Kyoto we did not see evidence that they are used much for biochar production. Most biochar seems to be made by very small scale stirred bed rice husk gasifiers by Kansai Corporation.. The gas is burned above the stirred bed and used to heat water for space heating or process heat. The biochar (called $B!H(Bkuntan$B!I(B) sells for about $0.40/lb.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark Ludlow<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:01 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tom,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The incinerators I$B!G(Bve seen, operate with excess oxygen. This seems antithetical to gasification. Perhaps a two-stage gasifier?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tom Miles<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:09 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">You could call it a pyrolytic incinerator. The gases must be burned in conditions to completely destroy the dioxins. Even the poultry manure gasifier in West Virginia had to be tested for dioxins. Poultry litter manure has about 1% chlorine on a dry basis. Municipal waste also is loaded with salts from foods and fertilizers. We found much higher concentrations of salts in ash from MSW incineration than we expected.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Tom <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; color: windowtext; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Lloyd Helferty<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:49 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">In answer to Mark Ludlow's question,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Where does the rest of the $B!H(Btrash$B!I(B go?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br>That would probably be "up the stack" ~ i.e. == air emissions ??<br><br>In answer to John Miedema's question about "<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">chlorides involved in the trash</span>" and a possible<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">dioxin problem?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br>Again, you might, depending on the TEMPS involved in the process.<br><br><br> You might expect that one good way to avoid Dioxins is to avoid burning chlorinated plastics, i.e. PVC (Polyvinyl chloride), Chlorinated polyethylene (CPE), Chlorinated polyvinyl chloride (CPVC) etc.<br><br> Yes, most dioxins arise in the condensed solid phase by the reaction of inorganic chlorides with graphitic structures in char-containing ash particles, with copper acting as a catalyst for these reactions, therefore the highest dioxin concentration is typically created by the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><i>pyrolysis</i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of PVC.<br><br> Large<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>incinerators</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>have mostly worked this out, however. The Japanese [and German] tech is rather good at dealing with these things.<br><br>I don't know what kind of "air emissions" controls have been put on this particular system, if any.<br><br> The single most important factor in forming dioxin-like compounds is the temperature of the combustion gases. Oxygen concentration also plays a major role on dioxin formation, but<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>not</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>the chlorine content. Several studies have shown that removing PVC from waste would<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>not</u><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>significantly reduce the quantity of dioxins emitted.**<br><br>The design of modern incinerators minimize dioxins by optimizing the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>stability of the thermal process</b>. The EU emission limit is 0.1 ng I-TEQ/m3. Modern incinerators not only operate in conditions that minimize dioxin formation, but are also equipped with<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>pollution control devices</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>which catch the low amounts produced.<br><br>** The European Union Commission published in July 2000 a Green Paper on the Environmental Issues of PVC noted that, "there does not seem to be a direct quantitative relationship between chlorine content and dioxin formation".<br>Similarly, another study commissioned by the European Commission on "<i>Life Cycle Assessment of PVC and of principal competing materials</i>" states that "Recent studies show that the presence of PVC has<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u>no significant effect</u><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>on the amount of dioxins released through incineration of plastic waste."<br><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.biochar-consulting.ca" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.biochar-consulting.ca</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> 905-707-8754<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> CELL: 647-886-8754<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Skype: lloyd.helferty<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Steering Committee coordinator<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summit <a href="http://www.urbanagsummit.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.urbanagsummit.org</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> Advisory Committee Member, IBI<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.biocharontario.ca" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.biocharontario.ca</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> <a href="http://www.biochar.ca" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.biochar.ca</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">"It is the path, more than the arrival at the destination, that is important"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "> - Gandhi<o:p></o:p></pre><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; ">On 2012-11-10 12:36 PM, John Miedema wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; ">I am curious about the chlorides involved in the trash (plastics)? Would not there be a dioxin problem? </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><strong><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John Miedema</span></strong><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">BioLogical Carbon, LLC</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-family: 'Times New , serif ;color:navy'; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; text-align: center; "><span style="font-family: 'MS PGothic', sans-serif; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark Ludlow<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:24 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Where does the rest of the $B!H(Btrash$B!I(B go? Just, $B!H(BSomewhere$B!I(B? RE: Conservation of Mass.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Mark</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Terry & Susan Layman<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, November 09, 2012 4:08 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">The Swedish are probably using the same system the Japanese invented.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Leave it to the Japanese to perfect a system, that virtually elimanates</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">trash. Each day Iwamoto's<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://superstoneclean.com/waste-treatment-solutions/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">"Super Stone Clean Waste Treatment''<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></a>processors</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">can take a 20 ton pile of common garbage, and reduce it to less than 8 gallons</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">of what they call biochar.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Just watch their video. then you can see first hand the machine and the process.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">I, wouldn't classify it as BioChar, but it looks to me like ashes.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Reduces waste volume from 1/100th to 1/3000th of original input:</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">1,000kg waste $B"*(B300g ashes<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">( 2,200 lbs waste to 10.58 oz's ashes )</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "></span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">This is probably the most advanced system for Gasification.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; "><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: black; "><span><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br>http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>