<font color='black' size='2' face='arial'><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">For dioxins need to be produced, the chlorine needs oxygen to form the intermediate chlorine dioxide and without the availability of oxygen, and the presence of excess hydrogen, dioxins are actually destroyed by the stripping of oxygen to form water with the hydrogen and the hydrogen produces hydrogen chloride or hydrochloric acid. There are a series of reactions and conditions needed to produce dioxins including temperature, residence time, oxygen, and designs of thermal systems can affect the production where a pyrolytic gas is combusted, they will be produced. </font>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="2">In our testing for the North Counties Association, a group of cities around San Diego, the ash and gas we produced from MSW/RDF operations in South Houston did not contain any dioxins. Additionally, with the interesting gas cleaning system we have developed, tires gasified contained no sulfur by FTIR analysis and other analysis. It was not a specific S removal system i.e., not designed specifically to remove S from the gas. <br>
</font><br>
<div style="font-size: 13px; clear: both; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial">Sincerely,</font><br>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif">Leland T. "Tom" Taylor</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thermogenics Inc. </font></div>
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<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Tom Miles <tmiles@trmiles.com><br>
To: mark <mark@ludlow.com>; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
Sent: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 9:38 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project<br>
<br>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Mark,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">The Japanese unit looks like it might be a small rotary pyrolyzer that is heated by burning the offgas. In that case we would expect to see a char product and a clean stack. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Ebara is the main waste to energy company that uses gasification in Japan. Burn the gas directly into a close coupled boiler. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Japan funded extensive waste gasification in the 1990s. They tried several different types of gasifiers. Ebara is one of the few companies that still used gasification for waste. There are several companies that make rotary pyrolyzers. Last year in Kyoto we did not see evidence that they are used much for biochar production. Most biochar seems to be made by very small scale stirred bed rice husk gasifiers by Kansai Corporation.. The gas is burned above the stirred bed and used to heat water for space heating or process heat. The biochar (called “kuntan”) sells for about $0.40/lb. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Tom</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org?">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Ludlow<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Tom,</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">The incinerators I’ve seen, operate with excess oxygen. This seems antithetical to gasification. Perhaps a two-stage gasifier?</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Mark</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Miles<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">You could call it a pyrolytic incinerator. The gases must be burned in conditions to completely destroy the dioxins. Even the poultry manure gasifier in West Virginia had to be tested for dioxins. Poultry litter manure has about 1% chlorine on a dry basis. Municipal waste also is loaded with salts from foods and fertilizers. We found much higher concentrations of salts in ash from MSW incineration than we expected. </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Tom </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lloyd Helferty<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">In answer to Mark Ludlow's question, <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Where does the rest of the “trash” go? </span><br>
That would probably be "up the stack" ~ i.e. == air emissions ??<br>
<br>
In answer to John Miedema's question about "<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">chlorides involved in the trash</span>" and a possible <span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">dioxin problem? </span><br>
Again, you might, depending on the TEMPS involved in the process.<br>
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<br>
You might expect that one good way to avoid Dioxins is to avoid burning chlorinated plastics, i.e. PVC (Polyvinyl chloride), Chlorinated polyethylene (CPE), Chlorinated polyvinyl chloride (CPVC) etc.<br>
<br>
Yes, most dioxins arise in the condensed solid phase by the reaction of inorganic chlorides with graphitic structures in char-containing ash particles, with copper acting as a catalyst for these reactions, therefore the highest dioxin concentration is typically created by the <b><i>pyrolysis</i></b> of PVC.<br>
<br>
Large <b>incinerators</b> have mostly worked this out, however. The Japanese [and German] tech is rather good at dealing with these things.<br>
<br>
I don't know what kind of "air emissions" controls have been put on this particular system, if any.<br>
<br>
The single most important factor in forming dioxin-like compounds is the temperature of the combustion gases. Oxygen concentration also plays a major role on dioxin formation, but <b>not</b> the chlorine content. Several studies have shown that removing PVC from waste would <u>not</u> significantly reduce the quantity of dioxins emitted.**<br>
<br>
The design of modern incinerators minimize dioxins by optimizing the <b>stability of the thermal process</b>. The EU emission limit is 0.1 ng I-TEQ/m3. Modern incinerators not only operate in conditions that minimize dioxin formation, but are also equipped with <b>pollution control devices</b> which catch the low amounts produced.<br>
<br>
** The European Union Commission published in July 2000 a Green Paper on the Environmental Issues of PVC noted that, "there does not seem to be a direct quantitative relationship between chlorine content and dioxin formation".<br>
Similarly, another study commissioned by the European Commission on "<i>Life Cycle Assessment of PVC and of principal competing materials</i>" states that "Recent studies show that the presence of PVC has <u>no significant effect</u> on the amount of dioxins released through incineration of plastic waste."<br>
<br>
Regards,</div>
<pre> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist</pre><pre> Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)</pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.biochar-consulting.ca">www.biochar-consulting.ca</a></pre><pre> 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada</pre><pre> 905-707-8754</pre><pre> CELL: 647-886-8754</pre><pre> Skype: lloyd.helferty</pre><pre> Steering Committee coordinator</pre><pre> Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)</pre><pre> President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario</pre><pre> National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)</pre><pre> Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summit <a target="_blank" href="http://www.urbanagsummit.org">www.urbanagsummit.org</a> </pre><pre> Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:</pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475</a></pre><pre> Advisory Committee Member, IBI</pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717">http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717</a></pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675">http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675</a></pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario">http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario</a></pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/">http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/</a></pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.biocharontario.ca">http://www.biocharontario.ca</a></pre><pre> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.biochar.ca">www.biochar.ca</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>"It is the path, more than the arrival at the destination, that is important"</pre><pre> - Gandhi</pre>
<div class="MsoNormal">On 2012-11-10 12:36 PM, John Miedema wrote:</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">I am curious about the chlorides involved in the trash (plastics)? Would not there be a dioxin problem? </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:">John Miedema</span></strong></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:">BioLogical Carbon, LLC</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Ludlow<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:24 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Where does the rest of the “trash” go? Just, “Somewhere”? RE: Conservation of Mass.</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:">Mark</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> Gasification [<a href="mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Terry & Susan Layman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 09, 2012 4:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project</span></div>
</div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"> </div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">The Swedish are probably using the same system the Japanese invented.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">Leave it to the Japanese to perfect a system, that virtually elimanates</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">trash. Each day Iwamoto's <a target="_blank" href="http://superstoneclean.com/waste-treatment-solutions/">"Super Stone Clean Waste Treatment'' </a>processors</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">can take a 20 ton pile of common garbage, and reduce it to less than 8 gallons</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">of what they call biochar. </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">Just watch their video. then you can see first hand the machine and the process.</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">I, wouldn't classify it as BioChar, but it looks to me like ashes.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">Reduces waste volume from 1/100th to 1/3000th of original input: </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">1,000kg waste →300g ashes </span><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">( 2,200 lbs waste to 10.58 oz's ashes )</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">This is probably the most advanced system for Gasification.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></div>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Gasification mailing list</pre><pre> </pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</pre><pre><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</pre><pre><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></pre><pre> </pre><pre>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:</pre><pre><a target="_blank" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a></pre></blockquote>
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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________
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