<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Ok, steam turbines under 250 hp aren't efficient and a turbine needs super heated steam. But a reciprocating steam engine is efficient and doesn't need superheated steam, so aren't these better than trying to deal with tar in an internal combustion engine?</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Stuart.</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> stuart mather <kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 1 February 2013 12:21 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv46203392"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div><span>I'm just curious why syngas is ever deliberately burnt in an internal combustion engine in a deliberate setup when surely it would completely sidestep the tar/acids corrosion/disposal issue if the heat was just used to power a steam turbine driven generator? Sorry if it's a daft question.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Stuart.</span></div><div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr">
<font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Robert Fairchild <solarbobky@yahoo.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, 1 February 2013 11:40 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv46203392"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font:inherit;">This might be a job for mushrooms. Really. Filter the water through straw or woodchips then innoculate with the appropriate fungus. It's known as mycoremediation. Paul Stamets is the
expert.<br>See:<br>http://www.realitysandwich.com/mycoremediation_and_oil_spills<br>http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/research/reports/fullreports/464.1.pdf<br> Bob<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 1/31/13, linvent@aol.com <i><linvent@aol.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px;"><br>From: linvent@aol.com <linvent@aol.com><br>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7: scrubber water<br>To: gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Date: Thursday, January 31, 2013, 8:15 PM<br><br><div id="yiv46203392"><font size="2" color="black" face="arial">And some of the gasifiers in India simply
dump it in ponds. One very well funded group set up large tanks ala biodigesters, that didn't work. This is the same group that spent $200 mm on an Australian MSW to power gasifier that was scrapped. It is not acceptable to dump the produced water in any normal waste water treatment system. Even in "clean" gasifier gas the moisture content going to the engine will bring organic acids and other compounds that will reduce the lifetime and the power output of the engine. There are effective water treatment systems available, and after years of trying a variety of options, we have landed on ones that work well and are relatively inexpensive to construct and operate. If you look at the cost of a coal gasifier water treatment plant, it is a significant investment.<br>
<br>
<div style="clear:both;"><font class="yiv46203392Apple-style-span" face="arial">Sincerely,</font><br>
<div><font class="yiv46203392Apple-style-span" face="'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif">Leland T. "Tom" Taylor</font></div>
<div><font class="yiv46203392Apple-style-span" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thermogenics Inc. </font></div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family: helvetica, arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black;">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: David Coote <dccoote@mira.net><br>
To: gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
Sent: Thu, Jan 31, 2013 5:38 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7: scrubber water<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv46203392AOLMsgPart_0_3c4c1624-fb30-4bb5-a340-978e5ecb267d" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<pre style="font-size:9pt;"><tt>How were they handling the scrubber water, Tom? A colleague visited a
reasonable size gasifier in Europe where the water was stored in a tank.
Once this tank was full their immediate option was to install another
tank. Not ideal!
Waste disposal is becoming increasingly expensive in Australia. This
would increase the cost of the power.
Regards
David
On 1/02/2013 7:00 AM, <a rel="nofollow" href="">gasification-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> wrote:
> ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013
> 09:32:11 -0800 From: "Tom Miles" <<a rel="nofollow" href="">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>> To: "'Discussion
> of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> <<a rel="nofollow" href="">gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> Subject: Re: [Gasification]
> Power Pallet Message-ID: <00f201cdffd8$e7c8ae80$b75a0b80$@trmiles.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >yes, but remember that all that run these fuels to date are doing so by
>>
> tolerating a dirty gas non tar solving reactor, and fighting the tar problem
> in the filtering. on the low tech end this is nearly always a water
> scrubbing system, which really just>moves the toxic problem somewhere else,
> and actual real world running is highly unattractive. yes, it will work for
> the demo, but the ongoing issues with the bongwater cofferdam challenges
> health, regulatory and general pleasurable>concerns.
>
> Not so fast. You can't write off "tar making" gasifiers completely. While
> your observation may be true for hundreds of low cost gasifiers now in use,
> in the last five years I have seen three small scale gas cleaning systems
> using wet scrubbers that would pass California air quality and safety
> regulations. One is produced commercially and was demonstrated at the 300
> kWe scale. Another was demonstrated at 300 KWe and used on a 1 MWe system.
> One was demonstrated on a 100 kWe downdraft gasifier generating 100 kWe from
> grass seed screenings. I know of another two in development for the 40 kWe
> scale. (I also know of at least one that has failed miserably.)
>
> Tar making gasifiers may be a solution for some very difficult but abundant
> fuel like rice husks and agricultural residues if the tars can be managed
> and destroyed acceptably.
>
> Tom
>
_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a rel="nofollow" href="">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</tt></pre>
</div>
</div>
</font></div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><div class="yiv46203392plainMail">_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a rel="nofollow" href="">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br> </div> </div> </div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a ymailto="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><br> </div> </div> </div></body></html>