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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For very small use, like a single home, IC engines are inexpensive and widely available. Steam equipment for this size is not readily available to the same degree.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>stuart mather<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 31, 2013 9:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> stuart mather; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ok, steam turbines under 250 hp aren't efficient and a turbine needs super heated steam. But a reciprocating steam engine is efficient and doesn't need superheated steam, so aren't these better than trying to deal with tar in an internal combustion engine?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Stuart.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> stuart mather <kneebraceboy@yahoo.com.au><br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 1 February 2013 12:21 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv46203392><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm just curious why syngas is ever deliberately burnt in an internal combustion engine in a deliberate setup when surely it would completely sidestep the tar/acids corrosion/disposal issue if the heat was just used to power a steam turbine driven generator? Sorry if it's a daft question.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Stuart.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Robert Fairchild <solarbobky@yahoo.com><br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 1 February 2013 11:40 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv46203392><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal>This might be a job for mushrooms. Really. Filter the water through straw or woodchips then innoculate with the appropriate fungus. It's known as mycoremediation. Paul Stamets is the expert.<br>See:<br>http://www.realitysandwich.com/mycoremediation_and_oil_spills<br>http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/research/reports/fullreports/464.1.pdf<br> Bob<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 1/31/13, linvent@aol.com <i><linvent@aol.com></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>From: linvent@aol.com <linvent@aol.com><br>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7: scrubber water<br>To: gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Date: Thursday, January 31, 2013, 8:15 PM<o:p></o:p></p><div id=yiv46203392><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>And some of the gasifiers in India simply dump it in ponds. One very well funded group set up large tanks ala biodigesters, that didn't work. This is the same group that spent $200 mm on an Australian MSW to power gasifier that was scrapped. It is not acceptable to dump the produced water in any normal waste water treatment system. Even in "clean" gasifier gas the moisture content going to the engine will bring organic acids and other compounds that will reduce the lifetime and the power output of the engine. There are effective water treatment systems available, and after years of trying a variety of options, we have landed on ones that work well and are relatively inexpensive to construct and operate. If you look at the cost of a coal gasifier water treatment plant, it is a significant investment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Leland T. "Tom" Taylor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thermogenics Inc. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>From: David Coote <dccoote@mira.net><br>To: gasification <gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>Sent: Thu, Jan 31, 2013 5:38 pm<br>Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7: scrubber water<o:p></o:p></span></p><div id="yiv46203392AOLMsgPart_0_3c4c1624-fb30-4bb5-a340-978e5ecb267d"><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>How were they handling the scrubber water, Tom? A colleague visited a <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>reasonable size gasifier in Europe where the water was stored in a tank. <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Once this tank was full their immediate option was to install another <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>tank. Not ideal!<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Waste disposal is becoming increasingly expensive in Australia. This <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>would increase the cost of the power.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>On 1/02/2013 7:00 AM, <span class=MsoHyperlink>gasification-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</span> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> 09:32:11 -0800 From: "Tom Miles" <<span class=MsoHyperlink>tmiles@trmiles.com</span>> To: "'Discussion <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> <<span class=MsoHyperlink>gasification@lists.bioenergylists.org</span>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Power Pallet Message-ID: <00f201cdffd8$e7c8ae80$b75a0b80$@trmiles.com> <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>>> >yes, but remember that all that run these fuels to date are doing so by<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>>> <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> tolerating a dirty gas non tar solving reactor, and fighting the tar problem<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> in the filtering. on the low tech end this is nearly always a water<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> scrubbing system, which really just>moves the toxic problem somewhere else,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> and actual real world running is highly unattractive. yes, it will work for<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> the demo, but the ongoing issues with the bongwater cofferdam challenges<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> health, regulatory and general pleasurable>concerns.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Not so fast. You can't write off "tar making" gasifiers completely. While<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> your observation may be true for hundreds of low cost gasifiers now in use,<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> in the last five years I have seen three small scale gas cleaning systems<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> using wet scrubbers that would pass California air quality and safety<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> regulations. One is produced commercially and was demonstrated at the 300<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> kWe scale. Another was demonstrated at 300 KWe and used on a 1 MWe system.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> One was demonstrated on a 100 kWe downdraft gasifier generating 100 kWe from<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> grass seed screenings. I know of another two in development for the 40 kWe<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> scale. (I also know of at least one that has failed miserably.)<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Tar making gasifiers may be a solution for some very difficult but abundant<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> fuel like rice husks and agricultural residues if the tars can be managed<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> and destroyed acceptably.<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> Tom<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>Gasification mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><span class=MsoHyperlink>Gasification@bioenergylists.org</span><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt><span style='color:black'><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></tt></pre></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><span class=MsoHyperlink>Gasification@bioenergylists.org</span><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Gasification mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Gasification@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Gasification@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a 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